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jonathanl79031925
Participating Frequently
March 19, 2017
Answered

Soft Proofing, ICC profiles, and Out-Of-Gamut warning

  • March 19, 2017
  • 3 replies
  • 4489 views

In LR, if there are any colors out of gamut for a specified destination color space (like a printer profile), some people will recommend to turn down the saturation (or mess with the HSL settings) in order to fix it. However, simply exporting it with the destination color space embedded in the saved image file will automatically convert all the colors into that space. Which means then you can load the exported image back into LR and verify that indeed, the Destination Gamut Warning has disappeared entirely (no more red). What's more is that the results are almost always superior than what you could achieve manually by editing HSL sliders anyway!

So my question is this: Why isn't there an option to do this conversion in LR, without having to export an image and then load up the exported file? It just seems like a lot of extra steps for something that can be done in a click of a button. It seems very odd that exporting and importing a file is necessary to do the automatic conversion.

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer Jao vdL

    This is quite a useless step. All it does upon export is clip colors. This does not solve your problem as Fosse notes. It just clips them and now the clipped colors happen to be in range of your proofing space. You also introduce possible numerical conversion errors that can degrade the quality of your file and introduce banding problems. You really want to minimize the number of color space conversion steps. Also, this is completely useless for a raw file and is quite contrary to the non-destructive editing approach as it is indeed destructive.

    Fosse describes the correct approach. You should not be obsessed with at all cost bringing colors into the destination gamut. Simply visually inspect the soft proof (turn the gamut warnings off!) and only if areas of color get washed out and lose details you should try to address it. Most of the time, the soft proof shows that the out-of-gamut is actually just fine even though the OOG overlay might show out-of-gamut areas. Only try to fix it if there is a problem that is clearly visible and objectionable. Trying to get every color perfectly in gamut can really ruin an image if not done right.

    I also caution against using the HSL tools as they really impact your entire image. Only when the only instance of the objectionable color is what is out of gamut might it work but in general it gets bad results as it also impacts the instances of that same color that are not OOG. It can work but only in very limited cases.

    3 replies

    NB, colourmanagement
    Community Expert
    NB, colourmanagementCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    February 12, 2020

    Dfosse writes:

    "

    But it's still clipped, and clipping may or may not look objectionable. Sometimes you really should make an effort to fix it, sometimes it's no big deal. The usual effect of clipping is to kill texture and detail. It will often be damaging to intangible qualities like "air" and "space".

     

    Either way, HSL is rarely the right tool - it's to general, with too much collateral damage. You need to work with a more targeted approach. It's not just a question of knocking down saturation across the board.

     

    Done well, effective gamut remapping can improve an image considerably. But it's often a lot of work, which may or may not be worth it."

     

    absoultely right, its very well worth learning about manual adjustment of saturation in preparation for print. 

     

    I hope this helps

     

    neil barstow, colourmanagement.net

    [please do not use the reply button on a message in the thread, only use the one at the top of the page, to maintain chronological order]

    J
    Community Expert
    Jao vdLCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
    Community Expert
    March 19, 2017

    This is quite a useless step. All it does upon export is clip colors. This does not solve your problem as Fosse notes. It just clips them and now the clipped colors happen to be in range of your proofing space. You also introduce possible numerical conversion errors that can degrade the quality of your file and introduce banding problems. You really want to minimize the number of color space conversion steps. Also, this is completely useless for a raw file and is quite contrary to the non-destructive editing approach as it is indeed destructive.

    Fosse describes the correct approach. You should not be obsessed with at all cost bringing colors into the destination gamut. Simply visually inspect the soft proof (turn the gamut warnings off!) and only if areas of color get washed out and lose details you should try to address it. Most of the time, the soft proof shows that the out-of-gamut is actually just fine even though the OOG overlay might show out-of-gamut areas. Only try to fix it if there is a problem that is clearly visible and objectionable. Trying to get every color perfectly in gamut can really ruin an image if not done right.

    I also caution against using the HSL tools as they really impact your entire image. Only when the only instance of the objectionable color is what is out of gamut might it work but in general it gets bad results as it also impacts the instances of that same color that are not OOG. It can work but only in very limited cases.

    J
    jonathanl79031925Author
    Participating Frequently
    March 19, 2017

    If using the HSL tool is not recommended, what is the recommended way to address large portions of the image being out of gamut?

    J
    Community Expert
    Jao vdLCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    March 19, 2017

    Generally do nothing. Only if you lose detail in those areas, you should use some localized edits (negative saturation generally) and that should fix it. Considering the clipping part, It depends on how the lab works whether there is an advantage. If they insist on doing the conversion from whatever you deliver, you can use their profile to check for problems (again an out-of-gamut warning is not generally a problem) and color shifts that you might want to correct. If they allow you to deliver files in their profile, there is some advantage in doing the conversion yourself as you avoid a conversion step that can potentially induce color banding. Consider the hypothetical case that you would send them a file in 8-bit adobeRGB vs a 8-bit printProfile. What happens in the first case is that you go linear 16-bit ppRGB->8-bit aRGB->8-bit printProfile, in the second case you go directly 16-bit ppRGB->8-bit printProfile. It is possible that the intermediate step to adobeRGB or sRGB actually blows some colors that are printable in the final destination and you also can get bit-conversion errors that can cause banding.

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    D FosseCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    March 19, 2017

    Yes and no. It's not as simple as that.

    Yes, it will be brought into gamut, sort of. This will happen in any case, when the file is moved into another color space (screen, print or export). There is no "separate step".

    But it's still clipped, and clipping may or may not look objectionable. Sometimes you really should make an effort to fix it, sometimes it's no big deal. The usual effect of clipping is to kill texture and detail. It will often be damaging to intangible qualities like "air" and "space".

    Either way, HSL is rarely the right tool - it's to general, with too much collateral damage. You need to work with a more targeted approach. It's not just a question of knocking down saturation across the board.

    Done well, effective gamut remapping can improve an image considerably. But it's often a lot of work, which may or may not be worth it.

    J
    jonathanl79031925Author
    Participating Frequently
    March 19, 2017

    IMHO, it would still be a very useful and handy feature to be able to convert to different color space without exporting. Even if it's technically not the absolute "correct" way, it works for me in 95% of cases when a "targeted approach" is too time consuming or unnecessary.

    Todd Shaner
    Todd Shaner
    Legend
    March 19, 2017

    jonathanl79031925  wrote

    IMHO, it would still be a very useful and handy feature to be able to convert to different color space without exporting. Even if it's technically not the absolute "correct" way, it works for me in 95% of cases when a "targeted approach" is too time consuming or unnecessary.

    If you're printing to a locally attached printer you have that option using the Print module. What type of printer or print service are you using?

    In addition to what D Fosse has mentioned the most basic Soft Proof adjustment tool is Rendering Intent. The LR Export module uses a fixed 'Perceptual' Rendering Intent when converting the image file to a printer profile. This may not be the best choice depending on the subject and target printer profile. The LR Soft Proof and Printer module provide the ability to use Perceptual or Relative Intent. If using an outside print service or printer on another computer here's how can you create an output file with Relative rendering intent:

    1) Do the printer profile conversion and file output in PS, which also has additional rendering intents (Saturation, Absolute).

    2) Do the printer profile conversion and file output in the LR Print module. You only have the option to create a JPG file, but that's what many print services require. Make sure they accept profile converted files and that you're using their printer profile for the target paper type. Here's an example:

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