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Question

taking advantage of the HDR revolution

Forum|Forum|2 years ago
February 21, 2024
5 replies
2060 views

I'm surprised there isn't more chatter over HDR editing in LCv13 and displaying photos on an HDR monitor. In my view, its a far bigger advance in image quality than upgrading a camera or lens. But for now LC only displays the HDR image properly on your HDR monitor in develop mode, not libary mode nor in develop full screen mode. I consider this a huge bug, they may consider it a feature. Presumably it'll get fixed eventually.

This also leads to another problem. Is there any way to view the HDR image outside of the LC develop mode? AFAICT, no matter what format (avif, jpg xl etc) you save an image in from the develop panel , with HDR editing enabled, it won't look the same unless you view it in LC develop mode. Does that sound right? If so its a huge limitation that means you cannot enjoy the best version of the photo in any other program. I havent tried viewing on my tv yet, which is a higher HDR capacity than my monitor (only displayHDR 400). I understand non-HDR monitors can still use gain mapping to display some improvement, but how can those of us with HDR screens enjoy our photos outside of LC develop mode? And what about printing? Is an edited HDR photo viewed on an HDR monitor going to look remotely the same when printed?

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Conrad_C

Community Expert

but how can those of us with HDR screens enjoy our photos outside of LC develop mode? And what about printing? Is an edited HDR photo viewed on an HDR monitor going to look remotely the same when printed?
By @1Roy1

Right now the answer comes down to these things:

If you have an HDR screen and a compatible web browser, Lightroom Photos on the web does support HDR, so you can sync a Lightroom Classic collection that contains HDR images to Lightroom Photos in the cloud, and when that is viewed in a compatible web browser on an HDR display anyone can see the photos on the web in HDR.

If you want to share them on the web outside Lightroom Photos, the Export command has been upgraded to allow HDR-compatible formats such as JPEG XL and AVIF. Of course this means the app or web browser at the receiving end needs to be current enough to know how to handle those and display HDR. And, there is an option to use a JPEG with a gain map to help translate HDR to SDR.

If you edit in HDR and you know you are going to need an SDR version to share, or you plan to print, then you want to study and use the SDR Rendition Settings in the HDR controls. The SDR Rendition Settings let you store a second set of adjustments that determine how the HDR edit looks on SDR. This way, you don’t have to just pray that the HDR image might look OK in SDR, you can control how it will look in SDR.

I think if someone wants to make serious photo prints from an HDR edit, the answer is the same as it has always been: Don’t print straight from the native Develop module, make a virtual proof copy and tune it while Develop is set to soft proof through the ICC profile that represents the exact printing conditions.

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Norly35635492uqul

Participant

Well, as far as I can tell, right now you can save your HDR edited image in jpg xl or avif, and when you open it it will look better on an HDR monitor than the SDR version in whatever program you are using to view photos, but it won't look as good as it does in the LC develop mode. Unless I'm doing something wrong, this is a massive limitation.

Conrad_C

Community Expert

…but it won't look as good as it does in the LC develop mode. Unless I'm doing something wrong, this is a massive limitation.
By @Norly35635492uqul

Yeah, but…in some ways, that has always been with us and is nothing new. Most non-Develop presesntations have always been inferior. Even within just traditional SDR, an exported JPEG copy doesn’t contains all of the quality in Develop, and an exhibition print can’t contain all the tones and colors of the raw file in Develop.

That’s why I said above that HDR editing isn’t all that different from how we have had to adjust our expectations when just going from SDR to print. Having to adjust our expectations from HDR to SDR or HDR to print is just another historical variation of the same thing we have always had to keep in mind — most end user delivery media already don‘t look as good as Develop, even before considering HDR.

And, it is very early days for this kind of HDR. But even then, we’re already getting to the point where HDR-equipped TVs and smartphones are selling in greater numbers than SDR (HDR computer monitors are available, but lagging behind in adoption compared to TVs and smartphones). The remaining gaps to be filled are in mobile app and web browser support. As those gaps get filled, we will need to worry about this less and less. Even today, if you know someone with an HDR display and they use the popular Chrome or Edge web browser, you can share an HDR edited image through a collection synced to Lightroom Photos, send them the web page link, and they will be able to see it in full HDR in Chrome or Edge.

Ricky336

Community Expert

...for now LC only displays the HDR image properly on your HDR monitor in develop mode, not libary mode nor in develop full screen mode. I consider this a huge bug, they may consider it a feature. Presumably it'll get fixed eventually.

...but how can those of us with HDR screens enjoy our photos outside of LC develop mode? And what about printing? Is an edited HDR photo viewed on an HDR monitor going to look remotely the same when printed?

By @1Roy1

It can't be called a 'bug' because it isn't, it is a 'feature' but rather not for practical usage I think.

How can we enjoy our HDR photos outside of Lightroom Develop mode? With great difficulty!🤔 🤔

Until we can get HDR printing paper - which is not going to happen - it won't look the same at all!

Therefore if one wants to print then HDR is a waste of time.

I think the development of this will be put on the back burner - the vast majority of users still use SDR monitors, as you can get the same look from monitor to paper.

Also remember that when developing images on an HDR screen, and then publishing it on the net, to get the same look, everyone has to view the image on an HDR monitor. We're not there yet! And then all HDR monitors are not the same!

Ian Lyons

Community Expert

@Ricky336 wrote "I think the development of this will be put on the back burner"

The 'What's Next' section of the Adobe Blog post I provided a link for in my earlier (copied below) post provides a little more clarity on the future of HDR in Lightroom and Camera Raw.

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/10/10/hdr-explained

D Fosse

Community Expert

And what about printing? Is an edited HDR photo viewed on an HDR monitor going to look remotely the same when printed?

By @1Roy1

Not unless you can find paper that lights up in the dark. A high quality print on high grade paper has a dynamic range of up to 300:1 at best. Already SDR monitors have a higher dynamic range than a print can ever have.

In fact, this is the part that I find undercommunicated. This is the first time in digital imaging history that screen and print go their separate ways and are no longer interchangeable. You now need two separate images, with totally different processing, for screen viewing and printing. That has never happened before.

N

Norly35635492uqul

Participant

Even 3 different workflows, SDR, HDR and printing. Probably not all photos benefit from HDR display, so you aren't losing anything in a print, but in other cases you'd want a digital display for max impact. Anyone know a high quality HDR digital display for sale that is at least 27" diagonal and designed especially to display HDR photos? Looks like an art frame more than a TV? Too niche?

Ian Lyons

Community Expert

You may find below linked articles and associated Youtube videos helpful.

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/10/10/hdr-explained

https://gregbenzphotography.com/hdr/#gallery1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V1edlS0O5k&t=1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW7hee5j49w&t=4s

J

Jeena22389650a1ho

Known Participant

thank you so much Ian. I'm clueless no more. This is all super interesting, and just...wow. Utiliziing HDR in develop on a high dynamic range image on my m3 is just incredible. The first time I utilized it on an image that did it justice, I literally had the sensation of muscles in my eyes adjusting for a new viewing experience or something. This is incredible.

D Fosse

Community Expert

The question, at least until every monitor out there is HDR, is what you can use it for. You can't share these files, unless you know the recipient also has an HDR display. You can't post it on the web, and you certainly can't print. So for now, it's mostly for fun at home. Not to spoil the fun, just being realistic.

J

Jeena22389650a1ho

Known Participant

I've noticed the button in the develop panel in the new version but to be perfectly honest with you I don't even truly understand exactly what is going on as I haven't looked into HDR monitors. Are these newer monitors simply capable of displaying a wider dynamic range now, and thus lightroom in HDR edit mode gives you the option to push your edit further to take advantage of the additional clicks of brightness you can play within before you clip? Sorry if I am betraying my ignorance, though I suspect many others are also still kind of clueless.

Please see attached screenshots. I'm on a new macbook pro and therefore I think I have the hardware to utilize this new feature. I see that once I enable HDR, without adjusting any sliders, it appears that in develop mode the image appears much more contrasty than before, but it seems that at least in this one image that I just tried it on, the highlights are clipping a bit from the outset. I'm a total newb to HDR monitors/workflows so I would love to read up on it if you can recommend an authorative source of information. Thank you. (Up to this point HDR to me was just that thing that my 5dmkiii could do where it could blend a few exposures into one image.) I'd love to read up on it, play around and join a discussion if you can point to some quality information on the topic. Thanks.

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