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Question

Colour difference

Forum|Forum|7 years ago
August 2, 2018
19 replies
5482 views

So I will go into as much detail as I can about my issue.

I use a Canon 5Dmkii set to colour profile sRBG.

My Photoshop working space is set to sRGB 2.1.

I have a colour calibrated laptop with a Spyder 5 express.

When I upload my images from my CF card to my laptop and then upload them to Photoshop it says the profile is missing. How is this when they both are set to sRBG?

I do a killer edit then go to export but when convert to sRBG is selected it drains the colour but when I tick embedded colour profile is becomes more red? What is going on and why?

Export to jpeg. Preserve details

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brettg77707440Author

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Ok so i re-calibrated off the back of sRGB. are you guys ready for this haha. i added some saturation to the image just so it was more noticeable then exported with all bells and whistles.

(Below) PS and adobe bridge same

Below is PS and Ifranview

Below is PS and Pixieset website using google chrome

D Fosse

Community Expert

sRGB as monitor profile is the standard way to test the current profile, because that takes the monitor profile completely out of the equation. sRGB is pretty close to the native response of most standard displays. So it should look roughly right. However, the calibrator should do better, and get it exactly right. But your Spyder doesn't.

So that's why I'd run it again to make sure. If it still gives the same bad result, throw it away or return it.

Thanks to Per who pushed this. I considered it earlier, but frankly didn't think that was the problem. I was wrong.

A defective monitor profile can give very unpredictable results, and it can be hard to pinpoint until you just take it out. What's worse, it can often work well in some applications, and cause others to choke.

brettg77707440Author

Participating Frequently

Thanks, im so sorry about all this is hair pulling. i shall run the Spyder again and see what happens. i will keep you all upto date.

I have a friend who uses a spyder pro so im getting to use hers in the next week to test and see if it makes a difference and then i will know if its the spyder or the monitor.

brettg77707440Author

Participating Frequently

Also i have downloaded Irfanview, is this the setting you meant Per Berntsen

D Fosse

Community Expert

Right.

Brett, what you’re describing cannot happen. I mean, it can happen, but not the way you’re describing it. So there’s something you’re not telling us. You’re doing things you’re not telling us about. Now, you probably don’t mean that, you’re just impatient, I get it. But you also need to keep in mind that we’re not mindreaders.

This doesn't look like a broken profile to me, but let's see. Never hurts to get that out of the way.

Until Per's questions are answered, I’m going to give you a general color management troubleshooting guide. It has only three points, and it is 100% reliable and bulletproof. If these three conditions are fulfilled, the image will display correctly on screen. It has to. That is an absolute guarantee:

Does the image have an embedded document profile, and is it the right one? The right profile corresponds to the color space the file was actually created in.
Do you have a valid monitor profile set up at system level, and is it correctly loaded by the application? A valid monitor profile is one that accurately describes the actual and current response of the display, the way it behaves at the moment.
Are you viewing the file in a color managed application? It must read both these profiles and correctly convert from document color space into monitor color space, and then send these converted values to the display.

brettg77707440Author

Participating Frequently

I've read this 4 times now and it's still a little confusing.

embededd document profile as in sRGB? i looked at the image in bridge and states sRGB. (see below)

Monitor profile is set to sRGB 2.1 as was advised by Per Berntsen.

viewing the file in PS, Bridge, Ifranview,

all consistent but if the monitor profile is set then it will show all the same anyway yes?

uploading is a different story all together when it come to viewing images on a mobile device, very saturated and looks more red

brettg77707440Author

Participating Frequently

D Fosse Still issues my friend. screenshot of in photoshop. you can see the display profile, all other settings are default.

On the left is an uploaded image to pixieset website which is how i usually deliver my images, clearly a massive difference, im now beginning to think either my screen is on its way out or the spyder is a dodgy one.

brettg77707440Author

Participating Frequently

as you can see here, original (no edit) then i exported 2. you can see that they are completely different

D Fosse

Community Expert

We need to take a time-out and go back to the basics here.

the document profile should be sRGB, and it should be embedded. That seems good from the last screenshot.
the monitor profile should be the one made by your Spyder. You check this at system level, in the Windows Color Management dialog. The Spyder software screenshot is irrelevant.

So far we've concentrated on the Export interface, because that's where you saw these differences. But if you are now starting to look at the files in other applications, that's a whole other ballgame. Windows Explorer is not color managed. It will not show the file correctly, it will not show anything correctly, ever.

You need to look at the result in a color managed application, one that will read the document profile and correctly remap that into the monitor profile. Windows Explorer doesn't do that.

---

This is actually very simple, and color management works out of the box - until it stops. And it stops in Export if it's disabled, and it stops in Windows Explorer.

brettg77707440Author

Participating Frequently

Ok i think im starting to understand, The document profile is of course sRGB so that we know is correct, camera raw now uploads them in sRGB, Convert to sRGB is ticked and embedd is ticked, all correct so far.

so windows explorer.....is this the non internet based main desktop applications such as folders, photos?, or internet explorer?

if i go to my documents and pictures and get the photo from the folder......the preview will not be colour managed but when it is uploaded to say LR or PS it is then colour managed and so loads correctly? am i right?

Are there any sites you suggest i do a test upload to check this?

The screenshot is of my monitor profile 03.08.2018 is the spyder profile created today as a fresh start.

brettg77707440Author

Participating Frequently

No I've been using export and ticking both boxes. Ive never used save for web. The display profile shows sRGB 2.1. all looks fine on the 3xport panel but then when viewed in the folder it gets exported too it's just pants. I can upload a screenshot of you like to show you what I mean

D Fosse

Community Expert

I thought you were using a Spyder? What happened there? Your monitor profile shouldn't be sRGB, it should be the Spyder profile. The document should be sRGB.

brettg77707440Author

Participating Frequently

My monitor is calibrated to what the spyder gave me. thats what i don't get.... why i see a huge difference in photoshop than i do when they are exported into a folder after ticking convert to sRBG and embedd colour profile. surely they should look the same with no difference at all

brettg77707440Author

Participating Frequently

So this morning I've been working on a newborn shoot and it happened again. 2 different colours and then exported with drained colours

I have done a fresh calibration and a fresh install of PS. 1 or the other has to be wrong but which one?

When I change the view to internet standard RGB its fine but then when changing to monitor RGB it drains the colour.

Seriously getting frustrated now

D Fosse

Community Expert

Now it sounds like you're using Save For Web, not Export.

Monitor RGB, again, bypasses color management and shows you the un-managed version on screen. Under Preview, set it to Use Document Profile. This is the same as checking "embed profile" in the Export dialog - it shows you the correctly color managed version, same as Photoshop.

Phew. Don't blame me - the web export modules have all color management disabled by default, and there is no way around enabling it piece by piece. I really can't imagine what the purpose of this is. Adobe is supposed to be the industry standard in color management, and they are, except someone there has this idea that it's not for the web.

As if color management is something harmful on the internet. You could make a case fifteen years ago, because an sRGB profile adds 3kB to the file. Once, that made a difference. Today it's nothing anyone would ever notice. We're talking photographs here, not tiny logos.

Lukas Engqvist

Community Expert

sRGB is standard RGB and does not need a profil, it is the only no-profile-needed colour space. Now you say you shoot RAW, and sRGB which is a contradiction. sRGB is the space for when you shoot RAW and JPG. Normally you never set your monitor profile in any of the settings, think of your monitor profile as glasses or contact lenses to compensate for defects as you try to view your working profile. (I can expand my explanat when I’m on a bigger device than a phone)

D Fosse

Community Expert

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Lukas+Engqvist wrote
sRGB is standard RGB and does not need a profil, it is the only no-profile-needed colour space.

No, that is a misunderstanding. The reason many have that impression is that most displays are reasonably close to sRGB natively. So if you feed such a display sRGB data, it won't be too wrong. But it will never be entirely right either, because no display ever made actually matches sRGB. It's just ballpark.

To be entirely correct, the document sRGB data are converted into the monitor profile, and those corrected RGB numbers are sent to the display.

If you had tried to work on a wide gamut monitor, or one of the new Macs with DCI-P3 display, you would understand the difference.

A raw file has no color space, the concept doesn't apply. It is encoded into a color space in the raw converter, not before.

(slight edits for clarity)

brettg77707440Author

Participating Frequently

Sorry about the confusion here. I really do appreciate all your help and things seem better now.

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