With the recent addition of flagging all images that use Generative Fill, a wide range of questions has come up. I have searched the forum for answers but have yet to find solid information. I understand this is a new feature, so definitive answers may be challenging to provide. However, any clarification on the questions below would be helpful! Metadata Display of AI Use:While content credentials indicate AI use, does the standard metadata also show this?I have examined the RAW data in the metadata UI but cannot find any indication of AI use. If the metadata is affected:What is it called?Where is it shown?With what version did this start?Distinguishing Between Uses:If I use Generative Fill for minor cleanup like removing dust, is there a way to distinguish this from large-scale use, such as replacing a background?Testing and Deletion:If I test Generative Fill on an image and then delete the change without using it, is the AI flag permanently embedded, even without the AI element used?This is currently how it works from my testingContent Credentials Display:How does the Generative Fill information currently appear in Content Credentials?Copyright Considerations:Is the Generative Fill part copyrightable for small-scale use? For instance, do I need to create a description each time I use it to clean sensor dust if I want to copyright the image?Retroactive MarkingWill Adobe be retroactivley marking past use cases of AI?If I wanted to run a script to identify old images where I used Generative Fill for cleanup or canvas expansion, can I parse the metadata for this? I'm not asking for a script, just if it's possible.I have used the remove tool and gen fill for thousands of images, do I need to go back and mark those all as made with AI?7.List of Tools that flag as AI useIs there a site with a list of all the tools for each Adobe Program that raise the AI flag in Content Credentials or Metadata?

J.C.C.1

Known Participant

Question

Generative AI and Metadata

Forum|Forum|1 year ago
June 13, 2024
3 replies
3768 views

With the recent addition of flagging all images that use Generative Fill, a wide range of questions has come up. I have searched the forum for answers but have yet to find solid information. I understand this is a new feature, so definitive answers may be challenging to provide. However, any clarification on the questions below would be helpful!

Metadata Display of AI Use:
- While content credentials indicate AI use, does the standard metadata also show this?
- I have examined the RAW data in the metadata UI but cannot find any indication of AI use. If the metadata is affected:
  - What is it called?
  - Where is it shown?
  - With what version did this start?
Distinguishing Between Uses:
- If I use Generative Fill for minor cleanup like removing dust, is there a way to distinguish this from large-scale use, such as replacing a background?
Testing and Deletion:
- If I test Generative Fill on an image and then delete the change without using it, is the AI flag permanently embedded, even without the AI element used?
  - This is currently how it works from my testing
Content Credentials Display:
- How does the Generative Fill information currently appear in Content Credentials?
Copyright Considerations:
- Is the Generative Fill part copyrightable for small-scale use? For instance, do I need to create a description each time I use it to clean sensor dust if I want to copyright the image?
Retroactive Marking

Will Adobe be retroactivley marking past use cases of AI?
- If I wanted to run a script to identify old images where I used Generative Fill for cleanup or canvas expansion, can I parse the metadata for this? I'm not asking for a script, just if it's possible.
- I have used the remove tool and gen fill for thousands of images, do I need to go back and mark those all as made with AI?

7.
List of Tools that flag as AI use

Is there a site with a list of all the tools for each Adobe Program that raise the AI flag in Content Credentials or Metadata?

This topic has been closed for replies.

V

vince3674795975j8

Participant

I believe this topic is significantly aggrivated because of the "fuzzy" definition of AI; there are too many very diverse different techniques and approaches that are all given the name "AI".

Again to me: the differentiator is the data used for the immage. If new data is added I call it "generative AI". However, if it is using only original data, but manipulating it in different ways [i.e., doing what you could do in traditional editing], I call it "Large-Language-Model (LLM) AI". There is a world of difference in these two approaches and I feel LLM should not be held to the same, or simular, judgement criteria as "generative AI".

This issue will not go away until a common, discriminating naming concept is uniformly applied to these two approaches!

In the mean time, I am applying only LLM AI approaches to my images.

Vince Higbee

D Fosse

Community Expert

If someone uses generative fill and doesn't want it to be known, that's probably an indication that they shouldn't be using it, purely from an ethical point of view.

By nature, generative fill is for making content. For minor dust-ups, there is very little point in using it. The traditional tools will be more than sufficient - and probably faster, more effective, and with a better final result.

Personally, I'm not touching it. The borderline case is the remove tool. I do use that, but sparingly and only when absolutely necessary for reasons I couldn't control when shooting.

J

J.C.C.1Author

Known Participant

Totally agree, I think if you use it, it should be shown. Just a lot of ambiguity and potential for updates to copyright issues going forward so I am trying to ensure I am ahead of the ball when changes do come. There are definitely some situations where the gen fill works wonders for standard retouching, but for the most part other tools are faster and much more efficient .

Stephen Marsh

Community Expert

This post is a discussion in the user-to-user forum, so I doubt you will receive any reply from Adobe here.

I have examined the RAW data in the metadata UI but cannot find any indication of AI use. If the metadata is affected:

What is it called?

Where is it shown?

By @J.C.C.1

File > File Info > Raw Data isn't an exhaustive list of metadata, it's only what Adobe has decided to make available... Using ExifTool, there appears to be a new CBOR group:

[CBOR]            ActionsAction                    : c2pa.edited
[CBOR]            ActionsSoftwareAgent             : Adobe Firefly
[CBOR]            ActionsDigitalSourceType         : http://cv.iptc.org/newscodes/digitalsourcetype/compositeWithTrainedAlgorithmicMedia
[CBOR]            ExclusionsStart                  : 3164
[CBOR]            ExclusionsLength                 : 11448
[CBOR]            Name                             : jumbf manifest
[CBOR]            Alg                              : sha256
[CBOR]            Hash                             : (Binary data 32 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[CBOR]            Pad                              : (Binary data 9 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[CBOR]            Title                            : Generated Image
[CBOR]            Format                           : image/jpeg
[CBOR]            InstanceID                       : xmp:iid:<UUID code here>
[CBOR]            Claim_generator                  : Adobe Photoshop/25.7.0 adobe_c2pa/0.7.6-2 c2pa-rs/0.25.2-patch
[CBOR]            Claim_Generator_InfoName         : Adobe Photoshop
[CBOR]            Claim_Generator_InfoVersion      : 25.7.0####
[CBOR]            Claim_Generator_InfoComAdobeBuild: 20240415.r.504 130b225 mac
[CBOR]            Signature                        : self#jumbf=c2pa.signature
[CBOR]            AssertionsUrl                    : self#jumbf=c2pa.assertions/c2pa.actions, self#jumbf=c2pa.assertions/c2pa.hash.data
[CBOR]            AssertionsHash                   : (Binary data 32 bytes, use -b option to extract), (Binary data 32 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[CBOR]            Alg                              : sha256
[CBOR]            Item0                            : (Binary data 3266 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[CBOR]            Item1SigTstTstTokensVal          : (Binary data 3639 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[CBOR]            Item1Pad                         : (Binary data 3043 bytes, use -b option to extract)
[CBOR]            Item2                            : null
[CBOR]            Item3                            : (Binary data 256 bytes, use -b option to extract)

I'm not sure if/how this relates to another set of metadata (JUMBF) which appears to be related to JPEG2000:

[JUMBF]         JUMDType                        : (c2pa)-<UUID code here>
[JUMBF]         JUMDLabel                       : c2pa
[JUMBF]         JUMDType                        : (c2ma)-<UUID code here>
[JUMBF]         JUMDLabel                       : adobe:urn:uuid:<different UUID code here>
[JUMBF]         JUMDType                        : (c2as)-<UUID code here>
[JUMBF]         JUMDLabel                       : c2pa.assertions
[JUMBF]         JUMDType                        : (cbor)-<UUID code here>
[JUMBF]         JUMDLabel                       : c2pa.actions
[JUMBF]         JUMDType                        : (cbor)-<UUID code here>
[JUMBF]         JUMDLabel                       : c2pa.hash.data
[JUMBF]         JUMDType                        : (c2cl)-<UUID code here>
[JUMBF]         JUMDLabel                       : c2pa.claim
[JUMBF]         JUMDType                        : (c2cs)-<UUID code here>
[JUMBF]         JUMDLabel                       : c2pa.signature

You can head over to the ExifTool Forum and search and or ask for more about CBOR.

J

J.C.C.1Author

Known Participant

Awesome, Thanks for the insight!

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