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_Peter_Mars_
Participating Frequently
October 31, 2007
Question

Photoshop CS3 color management "Save for Web" problem

  • October 31, 2007
  • 680 replies
  • 62092 views
This problem is getting the best of me.......

After spending 3 full days researching this problem, I am no closer to finding an answer than when I started. I still cannot produce a usable image through the "Save for Web" feature of Photoshop CS3. I have read web page after web page of "Tips, Tricks and Recommendations" from dozens of experts, some from this forum, and still I have no solution... I am exhausted and frustrated to say the least. Here's the simple facts that I know at this point.

I have a web design project that was started in PS CS1. All artwork was created in photoshop and exported to JPG format by using "Save for Web". Every image displays correctly in these browsers (Safari, Camino, FireFox and even Internet Explorer on a PC).

I have recently upgraded to PS CS3 and now cannot get any newly JPG'd image to display correctly. My original settings in CS1 were of no concern to me at the time, because it always just worked, and so I do not know what they were. I have opened a few of my previous images in CS3 and found that sRGB-2.1 displays them more or less accurately. I am using sRGB 2.1 working space. Upon openning these previous image files, I get the "Missing Profile" message and of course I select "Leave as is. Do Not color manage". CS3 assumes sRGB-2.1 working space, opens the file, and all is well.

The problem is when I go to "Save for Web", the saturation goes up, and the colors change. The opposite of what most people are reporting. Here's another important point... new artwork created in CS3 does exactly the same thing, so it's not because of the older CS1 files.

I have tried every combination of "uncompensated color", "Convert to sRGB", "ICC Profile", etc. while saving. I have Converted to sRGB before saving, and my monitor is calibrated correctly.
I have tried setting the "Save for Web" page on 2-up and the "original" on the left is already color shifted before I even hit the "Save" button. Of course, the "Optimized" image on the right looks perfect because I am cheating by selecting the "Use Document Color Profile" item. Why do they even have this feature if doesn't work, or misleads you?

Does anyone have any ideas what could be happening here? Why is this all so screwed up?
CS1 worked fine out of the box.

Final note: I do have an image file I could send along that demonstrates how it is possible to display an image exactly the same in all 4 of the browsers I mentioned with no color differences. It is untagged RGB and somehow it just works.

I am very frustrated with all of this and any suggestions will be appreciated

Thanks,
Pete
    This topic has been closed for replies.

    680 replies

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    _Peter_Figen_
    Participating Frequently
    November 27, 2007
    Peter,

    Just for kicks, what happens when you take your SFW image - the one you say gets ubersaturated - and open it back into Photoshop and then ASSIGN your sRGB profile?

    It's highly unlikely that your sRGB profile is corrupt. Never heard of that.
    _
    _Peter_Mars_Author
    Participating Frequently
    November 27, 2007
    >Most of them assume Monitor RGB, not sRGB

    First of all, my Canon 40D does not use sRGB 2.1... it uses something called "Camera RGB Profile" so I open and convert to sRGB 2.1... next I tweak and do whatever to the image, then I hit SFW and this is where it gets crazy. If I set the preview menu triangle to "uncompensated color", I see way too much saturation. (not like what I see in photoshop working window) If I set the preview menu triangle to "use document profile" it displays exactly the same as in photoshop. low saturation, normal, etc. This is a false display however, because the minute I hit the save button, the high saturation is locked into the image. No matter what I have anything else set on.

    It looks to me like photoshop is ignoring the sRGB conversion when saving, or overcompensating for the monitor profile... like it's putting back the color shift that the monitor profile took out in the first place. It seems to me that the monitor profile should be respected at ALL times. As if it weren't even there. Like it were a permanent filter. Like people wearing glasses what's the point of ever taking them off. No comparisons will ever be valid without them... or in this case, the monitor profile.

    I understand what you are saying here, my setup is just not following the protocol.
    Is it possible that I could have a corrupt sRGB 2.1 profile???
    _
    _Peter_Figen_
    Participating Frequently
    November 27, 2007
    "non-color managed browsers assume sRGB"

    Most of them assume Monitor RGB, not sRGB, and, as has been stated here several times, the further your screen is from sRGB, the bigger the shift you're gonna see.

    As far as your softproofing scenario is concerned, it really depends on the source image. If your source RGB image doesn't have any colors outside of your CMYK gamut, you won't see any difference, but if you have a highly saturated image, you surely will see a difference between the CMYK soft proof and the sRGB soft proof.
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Inspiring
    November 27, 2007
    >Softproofing in WorkingCMYK and WindowsRGB is identical, and unchecking ProofColors produces no change to either. Strange that both these spaces should appear identical to sRGB 2.1


    If your monitor's gamut as calibrated and profiled is smaller than all those three spaces, or if the actual color space of your image is narrower, I wouldn't expect you to see any difference at all.
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Ramón G Castañeda
    Inspiring
    November 27, 2007
    Safari is color managed, Firefox is not (yet).

    If you are seeing what you call a "saturation increase" my bet would be on your monitor being calibrated closer to gamma 1.8 than to 2.2.
    _
    _Peter_Mars_Author
    Participating Frequently
    November 27, 2007
    Here's an interesting discovery.....
    Softproofing in WorkingCMYK and WindowsRGB is identical, and unchecking ProofColors produces no change to either. Strange that both these spaces should appear identical to sRGB 2.1

    Save for Web is causing a saturation increase or profile shift on my machine. This is confirmed by viewing resulting jpeg in Safari and Firefox. Identical results in both when "Include ICC Profile" is unchecked during save. Checking "Include ICC Profile" when saving produces no saturation boost and normal image in Safari, but still causes a saturation boost in Firefox.

    It appears that Photoshop is not saving proper sRGB images. There should be no difference in appearance whether ICC profile is included or not, as non-color managed browsers assume sRGB and I am telling Photoshop to create sRGB images yet they do not display correctly outside of photoshop.
    L
    Lundberg02
    Inspiring
    November 26, 2007
    Raven , your Dell Monitor is not exactly sRGB because it's an LCD, AND, it is miles from being anywhere close to Adobe RGB. You can't get near Adobe RGB unless you have an LCD with RGB LEDS( 6,000 bucks last i knew) instead of fluorescent back light. Furthermore, saying that your monitor looks like a CMYK printed piece just means that you are looking at two examples of CMYK color gamut which is smaller even than sRGB, although it has better blues if I remember correctly.
    You have much to learn, pilgrim.
    A
    Anonymous
    November 26, 2007
    I apologize again for letting my temper get the best of me. The fact is, I have learned something here, and it did take 300 posts for the information to become clear to me. Thanks for the help.
    A
    Anonymous
    November 25, 2007
    My comment was that the example had minor differences. the OP and Raven said the differences were drastic (My understanding), so that's where I blamed the monitor calibration.
    _
    _Peter_Figen_
    Participating Frequently
    November 25, 2007
    Buko,

    You wrote in post #297:

    "I not sure what I can add to what yu had explained to you so clearly other than the fact you have a bad monitor profile a crappy calibrator and a cheap monitor."

    and now you write in response to Raven:

    >>SFW means definitively that there is something wrong with the monitor profile?<<
    "No I'm saying that the color shift is so minor from what I see in the screen shot that its not worth worrying about."

    No wonder this is confusing.
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