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Participating Frequently
October 31, 2007
Question

Photoshop CS3 color management "Save for Web" problem

  • October 31, 2007
  • 680 replies
  • 62136 views
This problem is getting the best of me.......

After spending 3 full days researching this problem, I am no closer to finding an answer than when I started. I still cannot produce a usable image through the "Save for Web" feature of Photoshop CS3. I have read web page after web page of "Tips, Tricks and Recommendations" from dozens of experts, some from this forum, and still I have no solution... I am exhausted and frustrated to say the least. Here's the simple facts that I know at this point.

I have a web design project that was started in PS CS1. All artwork was created in photoshop and exported to JPG format by using "Save for Web". Every image displays correctly in these browsers (Safari, Camino, FireFox and even Internet Explorer on a PC).

I have recently upgraded to PS CS3 and now cannot get any newly JPG'd image to display correctly. My original settings in CS1 were of no concern to me at the time, because it always just worked, and so I do not know what they were. I have opened a few of my previous images in CS3 and found that sRGB-2.1 displays them more or less accurately. I am using sRGB 2.1 working space. Upon openning these previous image files, I get the "Missing Profile" message and of course I select "Leave as is. Do Not color manage". CS3 assumes sRGB-2.1 working space, opens the file, and all is well.

The problem is when I go to "Save for Web", the saturation goes up, and the colors change. The opposite of what most people are reporting. Here's another important point... new artwork created in CS3 does exactly the same thing, so it's not because of the older CS1 files.

I have tried every combination of "uncompensated color", "Convert to sRGB", "ICC Profile", etc. while saving. I have Converted to sRGB before saving, and my monitor is calibrated correctly.
I have tried setting the "Save for Web" page on 2-up and the "original" on the left is already color shifted before I even hit the "Save" button. Of course, the "Optimized" image on the right looks perfect because I am cheating by selecting the "Use Document Color Profile" item. Why do they even have this feature if doesn't work, or misleads you?

Does anyone have any ideas what could be happening here? Why is this all so screwed up?
CS1 worked fine out of the box.

Final note: I do have an image file I could send along that demonstrates how it is possible to display an image exactly the same in all 4 of the browsers I mentioned with no color differences. It is untagged RGB and somehow it just works.

I am very frustrated with all of this and any suggestions will be appreciated

Thanks,
Pete
    This topic has been closed for replies.

    680 replies

    November 15, 2007
    I have to step to Peter's defense here. I am having the same problem as he is despite following g ballard "simple" steps from way back in the earlier postings. I am using the same Dell monitor as he is, but I've used the (apparently) respectable Spyder2 Pro calibration. Furthermore, I've gotten from our printing company a standard test image on disk along with a high quality colour-accurate hard proof to use as a reference. The colours are pretty darn similar between the screen test image and the printed reference image. (This is of course a subjective thing, but there's no way around that.) Yet I also have the same SFW colour trickiness.

    Colour management is by no means simple, and I have by no means got it all figured out. It is very easy to become frustrated, especially when people here are saying things like (to paraphrase) "hey dummy, the answer was in post #23, why the hell are you still here?" Well I also have gone through g ballards "simple steps" and still have the problem.

    I also, like Peter, appreciate the help that is offered as it is clear that some of you know a lot about colour management, and have tried to be as patient in explaining things as we have been in trying to understand.

    I am going to revisit g ballard's "simple steps" ... back to square one ... and will try to post my findings as clearly as possible.
    Participating Frequently
    November 15, 2007
    >> So when calibrating a monitor I should start with sRGB 2.1...

    Yes if using an eye-ball calibrator, by all means I would load a fresh sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile -- or the monitor's OEM ICC profile is probably better -- and if I started the processes over, I would reload the fresh OEM profile again before starting over.

    If you are using a good hardware/software profiling package (a puck), I don't think it matters what monitor profile is active when you start the process.

    FYI: AdobeRGB has nothing to do with monitors (or any other device). This is why it always looks so bad outside of color-managed applications -- aRGB must always be CONVERTED to a target-device ICC profile...
    November 15, 2007
    So when calibrating a monitor I should start with sRGB 2.1... I was starting off with Adobe RGB (1998). I'll give that a shot. Thanks for pointing that out :-)
    Participating Frequently
    November 15, 2007
    For anyone following this saga:

    Building a custom profile from a defective profile will usually only build another defective profile -- always load a fresh profile in System Preferences> Displays> Color like canned sRGB 2.1 before beginning the built-in Apple calibrator process.

    The fresh canned OEM profiles will usually be free of defects or corruption.

    sRGB works in this case because 1) it is a common monitor space usually very close to the calibrated 2.2/6500 monitor, 2) Monitor RGB matched Source Space, and 3) the canned sRGB profile was not defective.

    The reason color shifts when we strip a profile (in SFW or viewing untagged RGB in browsers) is covered in basic detail at http://www.gballard.net/psd/assignconvert.html and the phenomenon may be seen in action here http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_page_profile/embeddedJPEGprofiles.html

    Any Photoshop> View> Proof Setup: Monitor RGB SoftProof (or untagged RGB in web browsers) will show a shift on screen unless the file's Source Space matches Monitor RGB (not a good place to be).

    +++++++

    Lastly, I was impressed the OP stayed in here slugging it out and asking questions when he didn't understand what we said, but I have to wish him good luck now.
    November 14, 2007
    Maybe you got a crappy monitor too???
    Participating Frequently
    November 14, 2007
    Um No it doesn't.... my hand-made, Apple Calibrator profiles show the exact same color and saturation shift. They are bad too? Why won't you believe me? Why would I lie about this? G Ballard explained that there are 2 parts to a profile, one for the system and one for the monitor, that's very helpful. and Yes, it's possible my sensor may be bad. But my Apple Calibrator made profile does not work either and no amount of badgering and insulting is going to make it start working! I have made countless new profiles and all give me an unacceptable color shift. You are welcome to come over to my home and show me how to fix this! In the meantime, please lighten up!
    November 14, 2007
    >That does not prove that my monitor profile is bad... You Idiot!

    Um Yes it does.
    Participating Frequently
    November 14, 2007
    Mike, I will take your advice, thank you.

    I always ask lots of questions, it helps my understanding of things... that's just me.

    This was my first experience at this forum, and I had no knowledge of the hierarchy of experts and long-term participants. Respect must be earned not demanded... I now have great respect for G Ballard... and to him I apologize for any mis-communication or frustration my lack of familiarity with his experience may have caused initially. I tried my best to understand this. It is not intuitive!

    To those here that feel the need to take pot-shots at those with different approaches.... %$#$&!
    Participating Frequently
    November 14, 2007
    Peter -

    It really does not matter if you look at the bigger picture.

    Just go on your way because the world is a mess and you can freely add to it as you will.
    Participating Frequently
    November 14, 2007
    You are so full of **it I cannot even believe it! [edited by host]

    I will repeat this for the last time. No one has explained to me why a profile other than sRGB 2.1 causes a color shift, and why my monitor also causes a color shift, and why that explains a damn thing???

    Can you not understand this? Using sRGB 2.1 for the monitor profile is a test that proves what I'm saying! This is the only profile that does not cause a color shift... why!???
    That does not prove that my monitor profile is bad... You Idiot!

    I have continued to ask questions in an attempt to understand these things. All I have gotten has been disdain and worse! Several other posters have questioned recomendations and procedures by the "experts" here.... I am not the only one. I am not responsible for 200 posts other than the fact that I started the thread.

    I am not a genius and I am not stupid... I have tried to be polite in my questionings and in my responses. I however refuse to fit into your mold and follow along like a good little boy!

    Take it or leave it. You Loud mouthed fool!!!