Printing too dark in CS4

You seem to be able to get a different set of options when pressing the
Option+Command+P keys on a Mac.

>With an Epson PC/XP driver I can choose the Epson drivers AND do selective modifications from the same GUI. Why can't you do that with a Mac?

You can do selective modifications from the same GUI, but if the drivers are not fully updated (correctly) for Leopard then CM will not be truly off.

It appears that there is a correct procedure(from Apple for Leopard) for implicating no CM in the driver. Apparently the CS3 printing routine does not implement this correctly, but for what every reason with most printer drivers it actually works. CM off in the driver that is.

Apparently the CS4 printing routine does implement this correctly, but for what every reason with most drivers it does not work. CM off in the driver that is.

It appears to me, be it Apple or Adobe or both that there is an effort to idiot proof the driver setting when choosing Application Manages Color to force the driver to no CM. So if the driver is not written correctly it is still being forced to do something else, and that might be picking up the default profile for the media selected. An interesting note in that this is not being implemented (at least not as of the latest version) in the printing from ID or IL leaving you all the options available in the driver.

I don't believe you are going to get Adobe or Apple to make any changes, so the ball is in Epson's court. Although I don't see why Adobe could not implement the ID and IL way of doing this in PS and LR.

If you do a search for the issue we fought with, with LR1.3.1 and was corrected in LR1.4.1 and was brought back with LR2.0 you will get a better understanding of this whole mess.

I spend 99% of of my computer time on a Mac. I use a PC for printing color.

With an Epson PC/XP driver I can choose the Epson drivers AND do selective modifications
from the same GUI. Why can't you do that with a Mac?

If that's the case, and it may be, then, in order to print to Epson with CS4 and Leopard, you'd have to change the CU default profile every time you changed your media. I'll experiment with this and see.

A sure indication that that CM is not being turned off in the CS4/Leopard Epson driver combination. I bet if you change the profiles in the ColorSync Utility that you will get a different output.

Somewhere somehow the assigned profiles (look in the CU) for the selected media is still being picked up in the printflow even with CM turned off in the driver.

The latest drivers for the Canon iPFX100 series printers get this right, so it can be done.

" Again I am going to ask. Does anybody know of any Printer/Driver combinations that actually work correctly with CS4 and Leopard?

Sure. Here are a few Epson models that I know of: R1900, R2400, R2880, 3800, 4800, 4880, 7800, 7880, 7900, 9800, 9880, 9900, 11880. Just as long as you're printing via the RGB color driver."

I've been running tests on my 9900 in the past few days. Yesterday I printed Gretag TC9.18 RGB profile targets from a MacPro running 10.5.5. As far as I know there is only one 9900 driver as it's so new. I printed the target from CS3 and CS4 both in exactly the same manner - No Color Management in the Adobe print dialog and in the Epson driver with the same Velvet Fine Art media setting chosen.

Comparing the two data files read on a Spectrolino/Spectroscan with UV filter using Gretag's Measure Tool, the two data files show a maximum Delta E of an astonishing 20.72 on the patch with the greatest difference and many patches in the 10-16 Delta E range.

This indicates something VERY different going on in the data paths between CS3 and CS4. Visually the CS4 version looks just slightly LIGHTER than the CS4 version, but it's the extreme Delta E difference that is so troubling.

Given this massive difference, how the hell is Epson making profiles for these printers? You would have to know exactly how your customers were going to print.

My contact inside Epson was at the studio today (Southern Ca. advantage) and I've sent her copies of the data files as well as screen shots of the Measure Tools comparison along with some of Eric Chan's info. So far no one I've spoken to at Epson really seems to understand the complexity of the problem.

I have not yet generated the CS4 profiles and made comparison print from the Leopard/CS4 combo. That may have to wait until after I print a 400 print order in the next week and a half.

CS4 and Tiger is no problem at all, but you can't run Tiger on a new MacPro. For the meantime, it's going to have to be CS3 on the MacPro until this mess is figured out.

Thanks to everyone who pitched in and offered suggestions. The puzzle seems solved and here is what I did to get CS4 to print correctly:

Original Problem: CS4 prints too dark. When I switch to CS3 without changing any other parameters, all is well, and the prints come out properly.

SOLUTION:
I was lucky to have a laptop with CS4 that printed just fine. I noticed that the Epson printer driver on the MacBook Air was different from the driver on my iMac. The iMac driver had been updated to the latest version while the MacBook had not been updated but rather had a fresh version of the driver installed.

Hoping this was the key i deleted to trash the Epson printer driver on my iMac (StylusPro3800-09A6E5 (IP)).

Next i downloaded the latest printer driver for the Epson 3800 from the Epson website (StylusPro3800-09A6E5) and installed it from scratch on the iMac

I then went to system preferences and opened Print & Fax deleting the Epson 3800 printer (hit the - button). I reinstalled the Epson printer from scratch. Hit the + sign and wait until the printer is found (printer has to be on) . The OSX interface will find the new driver and install the printer with the new driver.

I launched CS4 and the prints no longer looked too dark, but identical to CS3.

Hope this helps anyone who has run into the same problem.

Thanks again for the help.

Do a search both here and in the Lightroom forum for "ColorSync Utility" and you will find a way to work around this issue with Epson drivers that are not properly updated for Leopard which causes double profiling with CS4.

SoleSole,
>Intel MAC 10.5.6.

In that case, I'm not in a position to offer any assistance, unfortunately.

Epson Drivers and Leopard on a MacIntel!

That could do it!

:(