Inspiring

Question

Still problems with glitches when working under layers in ‘colour’ ‘multiply’ etc mode

Forum|Forum|1 year ago
May 16, 2024
8 replies
3041 views

Dear Community.

Since the update to PSD 24.xx, I have been struggling with glitches that occur when working under layers that are set to ‘Colour’, ‘Multiply’ etc. mode.

This problem can be reproduced (see video with example layer in ‘Colour’ mode). It can also suddenly disappear, but will certainly reappear.

Since I have now even changed the operating system (previously I had the problem with different MacOS computers and systems) and the problem still persists, I assume that it is a fundamental bug of Photoshop and that it has nothing to do with my computer constellation. Hence this new post.

What has already been checked and undertaken since mid-2023, unfortunately unsuccessfully, with the help of @CShubert and others, see posts:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/glitches-beim-zeichnen-oder-verschieben-innerhalb-ebenen-gruppen-im-modus-multiplizieren/m-p/13932354#M743887

and

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/artifacts-when-drawing-in-folders-under-layers-with-modes-like-quot-color-quot-incorrect-display/m-p/14096091#M788041

A limited workaround thankfully came from @Doppeljochen :

If you switch the file to 16 bit mode, the error does not occur.

However, there are other processing limitations in 16-bit mode, so this can only be a temporary solution.

I think the problem has already been reported to Adobe. I cannot say whether it has been considered and dealt with. However, it would be great if someone would take care of the problem and solve it.

After all, the layer modes are a great and essential invention and peculiarity of Photoshop with which I have always been able to work flawlessly for many years - especially under these modes. Surely this should be possible again in the future without errors?

What do you think about? Greetings, Hubertus

System and program version information:

Photoshop 2024 Version 25.7

Windows 11 pro (23H2)

AMD Rysen 9 79503D 16Core 4.20GHz

128 GB RAM

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 24GB VRAM (TUF-RTX4090-OG)

Studio Treiber 552.22 (5/24)

This topic has been closed for replies.

D Fosse

Community Expert

This is actually a very interesting thread, because it's an issue appearing on several very different systems and platforms - but only in that limited environment of one single user. Nobody else can reproduce it!

I've seen a few of those, some myself, and quite a few more here in the forum.

In terms of troubleshooting, this is one big smoking gun, you just can't see where it is. What, exactly, do these systems have in common, that do not apply to anyone else? Good luck figuring that out. Obviously it can be other installed software. But it can also be something you'd never think of in a million years. There was a case here recently where non-standard characters in the user account name was the variable and the trigger for some bug. Who can think of that?

Computers are getting more and more complex. More and more things that can conflict and go wrong.

Kevin Stohlmeyer

Community Expert

@HubertusausBerlin can you upgrade one of your Macs to Ventura or Sonoma and see if the problem persists? Big Sur is not recommended for 25.9 and Mac GPU updates are tied to the OS updates. There were numerous GPU reported issues with Monterey that Ventura resolved.

HubertusausBerlinAuthor

Inspiring

Hello @Kevin Stohlmeyer

Thanks for your feedback.

... ah - sorry - that was just a mistake in the description - I've been on Sonoma 14.5 on my IMac for a while and have corrected that above (but as described, the problems already started under Big Sur and PSD 24.XX)

Greetings, Hubertus

HubertusausBerlinAuthor

Inspiring

Hello Communinity, dear Adobe experts & employees

The bug with the glitches under layers in certain modes such as -colour- or -multiply- is still present and unfortunately annoying again and again.

After I had the bug for the first time under PSD 24.XX on my iMacs (MacOS Big Sur up to Mac OS 14.5 Sonoma / AMD Radeon Pro 580X 8GB / 64 GB DDR4), it persisted from the beginning even after I switched to a PC with Windows 11Pro.

Even with the new Photoshop version 25.11, nothing has changed (see video):

Here you can also see that the glitches when moving disappear:
-> if you change the position of the -tone value correction- adjustment layer
-> if you change the document mode to 16 bit

To download and try it out:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nt5dr64jim75t5vxbkmwq/Glitches-07_2024.psd?rlkey=e3qz8g9r7wdi7ei4u1a6gikmv&dl=0

As you can see in the new test, glitches (in this case a glitch) occur as soon as you move something under a layer in -colour- mode (the same also applies to -multiply-, -copy into each other- and some others) or paint with the pen (see older videos).

There has already been a lot of feedback on this (especially with thanks from: @Ged_Traynor, @c.pfaffenbichler, @Doppeljochen, @Kevin Stohlmeyer), but no solution - just perplexity. Especially as the problem does not occur for all users.

The last suspicion that it might have to do with fonts or font management has unfortunately also proved to be a dead end, as you can see above (no font layer + I have now also removed all post-installed fonts from the system, and now manage a few with a font management tool).

It is clear that the glitches must have something to do with the graphics card (if you switch off support, the glitches don't appear either).

However, everything is fine with the graphics card. And the fact that the same glitches also appeared on other systems with other graphics cards and other drives) suggests that there must be something fundamental in Photoshop itself in the way it handles the calculation of certain layer modes, or rather in the way it involves the graphics card (or certain models, with certain features?

Since I literally didn't have these glitches for decades with Photoshop up to version 24.XX and was often able to use the wonderful functions of the layer modes such as -colour-, I don't want to give up hope that I will be able to use them again at some point without problems.

I therefore urgently request a review by Adobe employees and look forward to further information.

If other users like @Doppeljochen have similar problems, please let me know! Perhaps there are similarities in the device constellation that can help...

Thanks a lot + Greetings, Hubertus

Current system information:

Windows 11 pro (23H2)

Photoshop 2024 version 25.11

AMD Rysen 9 79503D 16Core 4.20GHz
64 GB RAM

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 24GB VRAM (TUF-RTX4090-OG)
Studio driver 560.70 (7/24)

HubertusausBerlinAuthor

Inspiring

Hello Community, Experts. (... + @Kevin Stohlmeyer , @Ged_Traynor , @c.pfaffenbichler , @Doppeljochen ...)

I have now completely reinstalled my system, updated all drivers to the latest version (chipset, board, graphics card etc, even the Bios/UEFI) - and installed nothing but the Creativ Cloud and Photoshop.

I started Photoshop with the default settings (no old presets) and created a new document. RGB, white surface. In one layer a text (in Myriad Pro). As soon as I create a layer above it in "Colour" mode, the familiar glitch defect appears immediately. If I convert the document to CMYK or 16-bit mode, it disappears again (as usual).

In view of the previous history and still the error on various systems (MacOS and Windows) - I am now convinced that it is a Photoshop error.

Since it is apparently only reproducible for a few users, it seems to have to do with certain hardware and software constellations.

Here once again my constellations (current):

PSD now version 25.9.1
(But also already in version: 24.6 and earlier 24.XX)

1

Windows 11 pro (23H2)

AMD Rysen 9 79503D 16Core 4.20GHz 64 GB RAM DDR 5

(NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 24GB VRAM)

Studio driver 555.99

2

Mac OS Sonoma 14.5

iMac Retina 5K 2019 (AMD Radeon Pro 580X 8GB / 64 GB DDR4)

3

Mac OS Big Sur 11.7.8 (Photoshop 2023, 24.7.0)

MacBook Pro, Retina, 15", mid-2014 (NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M 2 GB / 16 GB DDR3)

It would probably be best if programmers could have a look. Or what do you think?

In any case, I can't think of anything else that I could change or test.... 😞

Maybe other users have the same problems?

Best regards, Hubertus

HubertusausBerlinAuthor

Inspiring

Hello @Kevin Stohlmeyer

Thanks a lot for your reply!

About the Studio driver: Yes - the current Studio driver for the card is running. And all settings are also optimised (... and various setting variants have also been tried many times in the meantime).

In addition - as described above in the thread - both with the same file and with different files with a similar structure (layers below a layer in colour mode, multiply etc) - exactly the same problems occur on 3 different machines (2 x Mac OS, now new Windows 11 Pro) - with different graphics cards and also different Photoshop versions (from 24.XX - 25.9.1).

You can imagine that something is not optimally set on one card, but on three different ones, one of which has just been put into operation with the new Windows computer?

Incidentally, the hope of getting rid of the glitches was one of the reasons for buying the new computer with a more powerful graphics card (and a new system). It's a real surprise that they're still there. 😳 Really crazy.

That's why I'm now looking for what's link between everything - and suspect that it might have something to do with the handling of fonts in general in photoshop?

I have reset all settings x times. I have also reinstalled Photoshop several times on all systems. The problem is always there again.

My plan at the moment is to completely reinstall Windows and then just install Photoshop and test the test file in the new state.

I have just tried the workspace alternative with tabs (standard workspaces), but no luck. Same Glitches. But it woudn't really fun either, after all I have extra a second monitor for all my tools.

Greetings, Hubertus

Kevin Stohlmeyer

Community Expert

Long shot - what if you change your workspace to be tabs instead of floating windows?

Kevin Stohlmeyer

Community Expert

I'd suggest perhaps checking the AMD Adreneline tools to make sure your card is set to Studio and not Gaming Mode specifically for Photoshop. I've seen other users having GPU issues and it has to do with either BIOS or presets via GPU tools.

There are a lot of anomolies with all these tests.

The simple fact that if you disable GPU it resolves points to an issue with the graphics card itself. But you mentioned in one of your posts that you are seeing this on both Mac and Windows - is this with the same file?

A GPU issue would be a simple answer and explain why others cannot replicate - I am on a Mac (M1 laptop) and don't see any glitches with your file.

Do you customize your preferences at all? I don't see any mention of trying to reset your preferences to see if it resolves.

HubertusausBerlinAuthor

Inspiring

Update

Hello Communitiy, Experts. (... and @Ged_Traynor, @c.pfaffenbichler, @Doppeljochen ...)

Since the glitches problem seems to be related to fonts (... I use the same fonts on both PC and Mac ...), I uninstalled all non-system fonts on my Windows machine.

After that didn't work, I also uninstalled all the fonts I had activated in the Creative Cloud - that didn't work either.

I have also deleted all preferences again.

The glitches are still appearing:

And still under Windows 11 Pro (PSD version 25.9.1) - as well as under Mac OS (PSD version 25.9.1 + 24. 7.4).

Incidentally, the glitches occur in several modes of the upper layer. In addition to the "Colour" mode (example video), it's also under layers in the modes "Multiply", "Negative multiply" and "Overlay" modes.

If the document is converted to 16-bit mode or CMYK, the glitches no longer occur on all systems.

Since the glitches occur when the fonts are deleted from the document (or when they are not loaded because they are not installed), I tend to see a cause in connection with fonts or font management.

But what could be the cause and how can it be switched off?

Does anyone else have an idea?

Greetings, Hubertus

HubertusausBerlinAuthor

Inspiring

Further update on the topic (PSD now version 25.9):

I have noticed that the glitches not only do not occur in 16 bit mode, but also not in CMYK mode.
Or to put it the other way round: the glitches occur definitively in RGB, 8 bit mode.

Perhaps someone else can reproduce the problem? Or if an Adobe expert could say something about it, that would of course also be great!

Thx, Hubertus

HubertusausBerlinAuthor

Inspiring

Hello Moderators.

I have had a Photoshop problem with glitches for long time. Since I am now sure that it is a bug, I would like to move the post from Discussions to Bugs. Perhaps it will be better recognised there.

As I am not a moderator, I am unfortunately unable to do this. Could a moderator please do that for me? Would be very grateful!

Greetings from Berlin, Hubertus

This is the post in discussions:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/photoshop-ecosystem-discussions/still-problems-with-glitches-when-working-under-layers-in-colour-multiply-etc-mode/m-p/14661168#M813779

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