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Question

Location of Catalog structure backup - PSE 2021

Forum|Forum|5 years ago
November 15, 2020
5 replies
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1. Where does PSE 2021 store the catalog file that is automatically generated upon closing organizer?

2. Is there a user choice location for this file.

3. Is this same file that is saved when the user backs up the catalog structure and selects his own location through file backup?

Organizer

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MichelBParis

Legend

@Reg1987

I am coming back for your 3rd question.

What is different in the way (the format) the 'catalog structure' is saved:

- in the traditional full or incremental backups

- in the way advanced users made copies of the catalog folder

- or in the new automatic 'catalog structure backups'?

The traditional backup stores renamed copies of all media files in the 'backup folder'. It's similar for the components in the catalog folder. All files which don't start with 'B0' are not media renamed copies, they are catalog components copies. Two items are necessary. One is the 'catalog.buc' which is a simple copy of the 'catalog.pseXXdb'. The other is the 'backup.tly' file which contains everything to rename back everything to the original name and to restore it to the new location. It's created automatically at the end of the backup process. Just check if it is written to be sure the backup is complete and valid.

- Backing up the catalog folder is just doing a manual copy from the explorer. Good practice, fast and simple. Does not replace the full backup of the media files, but works if what you want is only to save the structure or if your other backup system is able to restore the media on the original drive.

- The new 'automatic' catalog structure backup does just the above for you. Small difference, to save space, the thumbnail cache (thumb.5.cache in the catalog folder) is skipped because it's too big and it will be re-created automatically. Other difference: you can save on your computer or in the "Cloud".

C

CBreeze123

Participant

....so I understand the benefit of the 2nd "autobackup" catalog, but in my situation, this catalog takes up a tremendous amount of space on my C: drive (since I have 70,000+ photos it takes up nearly 100GB). I have moved the "main" catalog (using "manage catalogs") to my 😧 drive (which has 4TB of space)...and I have even moved my Adobe products to that drive but I don't understand why I cannot move this huge folder over as well. I have tried to "spoof" Adobe Elements Organizer by creating an link from the C: drive "_autobackup_" directory (using the MKLINK command) to the "real" one on my 😧 drive. This works, by the way, but when I say "yes" to the auto backup upon exit, Organizer tells me that I do not have enough space for the backup (which is not true). I believe that Organizer checks how much space is needed for the backup on the C: drive and when it finds there is not enough space there, it gives an error message EVEN THOUGH my "real" _autobackup_ directory is on 😧 Questions:

- Is there a way to not have this backup at all? (I have been doing a "full backup" monthly.)

- Is there a way to put in a request (like others have suggested) to have the user control where this potentially huge folder exists?

Help!

MichelBParis

Legend

Sorry, but I don't really understand your situation and setup. I understand you want to use the catalog structure backup without wasting too much space on your C: drive; you say you have moved your 'main' catalog via the catalog manager to the other drive with a lot of space; you say you have "moved your Adobe products" to that same other drive: I imagine you have re-installed them on that drive.

- you say your catalog takes nearly 100 GB: could you post the first lines of the menu Help >> System Information of the organizer? That seems too much.

- There is very little doc about the _autobackup_ directory, so here is what I have found. By default, that folder is in the same drive as the PSE software. If you install it on D , I suppose that this folder will be there and I doubt it's possible to change that location. The _autobackup_ folder contains ALL automatic backups as subfolders. You can verify their contents which is the same as the contents of the catalog themselves minus the huge thumbnail cache. There is no interface that I know of to manage those subfolders and no precise instructions to use them for restoring unless the program itself detects a corruption and prompts you to restore. The number of those subfolders may make the whole _autobackup_ folder to grow to a huge size unless you manually remove the older subfolders. Restoring manually means copying the contents of a subfolder to a new folder and starting the organizer by double clicking on the catalog.pseXXdb file.

If you keep the number of subfolders to only two or three versions, the size of the folder itself will stay small.

The common problem today is with small SSD drives used for the system and softwares. I think that what is important for organizer users is to store their catalogs on a different internal or external drive. Those can take significant space with their thumbnail cache. The _autobackup_ folders requires manual culling to stay small.

Greg_S.

Community Expert

@henryf, you are correct that a full catalog backup includes all of the catalog information as well as a copy of all media files (not just thumbnail). But, starting with Elements 2021, you can now backup just the catalog files.

I agree with you about the clumsiness of the Help files. The best place to look for help is in the Search bar on the Welcome Screen. By typing in Backup and restore you will get a link to this article.

Added: Sorry, I cross-posted with Michel. For those who may be interested, here is Michel's linked article in English.

MichelBParis

Legend

@henryf

You mention here that Catalog structure can be recovered (which would be a big plus over what I have now - nothing) but I have not been able to do that even though I have a complete C:\ProgramData\Adobe\Elements Organizer\Catalogs. How do I do this?

The words 'catalog structure' just appeared in PSE 2021. In the previous versions, Adobe used the single word 'catalog' for either what users of assets management call simply 'catalog', or for the combo catalog + media files folders. For instance, the crucial backup procedures to backup media files and catalog were only called 'catalog backups'. That was totally contrary to Lightroom, where catalog backup does NOT backup the media files. That was left to the responsability of the user to use an adequate software for this purpose.

It seem that 'catalog structure' has been chosen to make clear that the 'catalog' does not contain picture files. In practice and for most new organizer users that is more easily understood. To be precise, it's still a bit ambiguous. The catalogue structure here covers not only the catalog folder' structure in various components, but also its information contents; not only the hierarchical tags structure, but the tags and links to the real media.

So, to make it simpler, a catalog is a folder. You have found its default path.

All users should read the help file:

https://helpx.adobe.com/fr/elements-organizer/user-guide.html/fr/elements-organizer/using/creating-editing-catalogs.ug.html

Also, all users should have a look at what is in this folder and know to find its location via the menu File >> System Info.

I also think that all users should know that the catalog folder (which has the same name as the catalog) can be moved or copied elsewhere while keeping everything intact, including all the links to the physical location of the various media files.

Since catalogs may not be necessarily in the default (hidden) location in C ProgramData, users may have to search for those folders in their computers from the explorer or finder. To do that, you have to search for the main component, the database called 'catalog.pseXXdb'. XX stands for the PSE version number, 19 for PSE 2021 for instance.

In this search, you can find the catalogs of different versions based on the XX part of the name.

Such a search may be necessary to scan the disk of an old computer to recover the catalog after a crash if you don't have a valid organizer backup.

H

henryf

Inspiring

Thanks for the clarification. Pretty much undertand now, just have to try it out.

Greg_S.

Community Expert

In my opinion, there is no such thing as a redundant backup. 😉 Different backup programs have different uses and if they are stored on different storage devices, there is no redundancy.

The "Auto" backup of the catalog is not intended to be a backup for restoration by a user. It is intended as a recovery from a corrupt catalog.

R

Reg1987Author

Known Participant

Thanks for clarifying.

However, it doesn't seem to make much sense to have 2 different backup programs. But that is Adobe's business.

As a user, I will use the new Catalog Structure Backup and keep my backup file on an external drive so it is not lost when my PC crashes and I have to reinstall windows and PSE. At least that saves backing up the pictures twice.

Ron

MichelBParis

Legend

You are feeling safe with your own backup scheme?

Here is what we are seeing here on this and other forums: too many users think that they are smarter than the Organizer progrmmers and do exactly what you are going to do. They keep a backup of their images files on a separate external drive. The smarter ones also save a copy of their catalog folder in the same location. Altenatively, they may use a Cloud backup solution. Or they may use both.

And what do we see in the discussion?

They can't restore as they expected if the computer (or its main drive) is stolen, broken, lost in floods, fire or similar, especially if the external backup drive is stored beside the computer.

At best, they can restore their media files.

They also can restore the catalog folder.

But they are never able to make the catalog work with the newly restored media files. All files in the catalog will be disconnected and they won't be able to reconnect much from a big library.

Also, they won't be able to move their media files and catalog when upgrading their hardware. Same disconnection problem. The real issue with Elements Organizer, which does not exist for Lightroom, is that the reconnection process never works well in that situation, even if it can be smart to reconnect smaller moved, renamed or deleted batches. That's why for such moves, you have to use the organizer backup and restore process, which keeps the connection with the new chosen drive/computer.

The new feature is simply a copy of the catalog folder minus the thumbnail cache to save disk space. The cache will be rebuilt automaticaly. What is extremely useful and critical for your safety is that the process can be automatic. How many users did regularly copy their catalog folders before? That has always been possible.

I have difficulties to understand why so many users think they are safe without having tested their backup scheme like this. To simulate the loss of your computer, try to restore on an external drive as a test. Can you reconnect the files in the restored catalog?

The 'redundancy' and the lack of disk space may not be the real motive of wanting to backup only the catalog. It's that a full backup is really very slow. Saving time is the primary goal. The risk is to believe that the media files will also be backed up. You get very clear warnings about that, though.

Managing files with a catalog (organizer or Lightroom) means backing up both the files trees and the catalog and keeping the links in the catalog updated after restore. It's not two separate backups, it's a bundle. The organizer offers its full backup solution and Lightroom offers a relinking of the drive.

MichelBParis

Legend

1 - C:\ProgramData\Adobe\Elements Organizer\Catalogs\_Autobackup_\

2 - No, but you can do the same by copying the current catalog folder minus the bulky Thumbnail.5.cache where you want

3 - have a look at the contents of one of those backup folders. As stated above, it's a copy of the catalog folder, not of a part of a regular backup folder with its renamed files and the tly management file.

Don't ask me where the backup is saved in the Cloud if you choose that option which is made available by your free automatic sbscription to the Creative Cloud (2 GB only).

R

Reg1987Author

Known Participant

1. OK

2. Understand

3. Confused

My real concern is that I am searching for the best way to backup the pictures and also backup the catalog elements like tags, captions, etc. The normal PSE backup backs up the pictures with the catalog structure. Thus, the pictures are redundantly backed up once with my normal backup programs, and then again with PSE backup. The Catalog Structure Backup feature enables this redundancy to be eliminated.

The"auto" catalog structure backup sounds great, but if the files are stored in a folder not usually backed by normal backup program like Seagate Tool Kit or Carbonite, then what good is it?

Thanks......Ron

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