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Question

Losing people tags

Forum|Forum|8 years ago
December 30, 2017
4 replies
779 views

Why do I lose people tags from a photo which I edit and save with a different name?

In earlier versions of PE this didn't happen. All tags were retained by default during edits.

I am using Vn 15.

I give a photo a person tag.

I edit it and save it with a different name.

Now the people tag is missing from the edited version

This topic has been closed for replies.

Greg_S.

Community Expert

@wthune said: Maybe when Face Recognition was added, it changed the way People Tags operated?

Well, that is certainly the case, and I don't know if this is the case with all versions, but old People keyword tags were converted to the new system People tags. Face recognition adds a .json file to the catalog folder for each photo and it contains the face coordinates for the person's face.

But it sounds to me like you are not using Face Recognition and are simply using the (converted?) People tags as if they are keyword tags. If that is the case, then you may want to go back to the old system. Depending on how many People tags you have, it may take a while but it is fairly simple. Here is what I would do:

Create a new keyword tag for each person.
Click on a tagged People name and all of the photos with that tag will appear in the grid.
Press Ctrl+A to select all photos in the grid
Drag the new person keyword tag to the grid. All photos will now have both the People tag and the keyword tag for the person.
Optionally, delete the People tag from all photos.

As for your screenshot, it is my understanding that there is no need to check both the Copy and Save in Version Set boxes. Either one will create a copy in the Save As dialog. The only difference is the name given to the copy. Michel, do you know of any other difference?

MichelBParis

Legend

Greg, I missed your last answer.

As for your screenshot, it is my understanding that there is no need to check both the Copy and Save in Version Set boxes. Either one will create a copy in the Save As dialog. The only difference is the name given to the copy. Michel, do you know of any other difference?

By @Greg_S.

No, I don't see any special property assigned to 'as a copy'. Since files saved after editing but not included in a version set get a new suffix 'edited-1), the only difference is the suffix. I rarely create non edited copies, so I tend to use the 'copy' only when it's an unedited duplicate.

For the rest, I agree with your explanation. I do know that the change occurred in PSE11. The tags were automatically converted based on the 'people' category label. I had renamed them into French, so none of my people tags were converted.

As I don't use face recognition myself, you do know much more than I do for this question.

W

wthune

Participating Frequently

Thanks guys. I'm guessing this closes out the question which is great since several people have had it over the years. Thanks again.

Greg_S.

Community Expert

@wthune, Michel has given you a much better answer than I have given you in a PM.

I do have one further point to add. Since you are saving the copied photo in a version set, if you search for the People tag (using any Search method), the Version set will be found even if the People tag does not appear in the copied photo and even if the copied photo is on top of the stack.

MichelBParis

Legend

@wthune, Michel has given you a much better answer than I have given you in a PM.

I do have one further point to add. Since you are saving the copied photo in a version set, if you search for the People tag (using any Search method), the Version set will be found even if the People tag does not appear in the copied photo and even if the copied photo is on top of the stack.

By @Greg_S.

Absolutely, saving 'as a copy' should be replaced with 'save in a version set' whenever possible.

@wthune

By the way, I don't know if you'll agree with our answers, but you have chosen to add the same question to a number of different posts at the same time. That's a very good way to get heard, but in this forum, we try to answer all your questions for users browsing all those old posts in the hope that most questions get 'correct' answers instead of 'no answers'. I suggest to continue the discussion in this post until we agree to a conclusion we can add in the other 'open' posts.

W

wthune

Participating Frequently

Thanks all. Here is my use case ... it may not be the best workflow (on multiple fronts), but per @MichelBParis post, I've used editing and tagging in PSE for many years and have not used face detection.

I shoot in JPG. I edit and then save as JPG. Given I'm changing the original file, I save it in a Version Set, but with a different file name so I can always go back to the original JPG if I want. So, @Greg_S. I do both, save "As a Copy" but also "Save in Version Set with Original" (see attached screen shot)
I tend to tag before I edit as editing takes a while and I want to always be able to find photos even if I didn't yet edit them.
All tags on the original file, other than "People Tags", survive the Save as Copy/In Version Set. For example if I add a Place Tag and an Event Tag, and then edit and save a copy of that photo, those tags are on both versions ... however, the People Tag is not visible on the new copy of the file.
To @MichelBParis suggestion, I am manually managing the people names in my "People Tags", just like I manage Event and Place Tags, so that's why I'm surprised that People Tags are behaving differently in the above situation.

My options, that I can see, is do the editing before the tagging -or- after editing retag each file with the appropriate People Tag. In several versions back of PSE People Tags acted like the other types of tags. I was hoping there was a Preference, or some other tweak, that would allow that set of behaviors to continue

Maybe when Face Recognition was added, it changed the way People Tags operated?

W

wthune

Participating Frequently

Anyone get an answer to this? I"m still having the problem in Elements 2022, July update

H

Herb1029

Participant

What does it take to get Adobe to address this issue??

M

mike1jnAuthor

Participating Frequently

I am in a chat with adobe on this question now. He says it will definitely get an answer if I ask it again.

I'm not sure!!!

MichelBParis

Legend

I am in a chat with adobe on this question now. He says it will definitely get an answer if I ask it again.

I'm not sure!!!

By @mike1jn

Two ways to manage 'person tags'. The original one, to add a totally normal keyword which you store in a 'person' category'. Normal keywords can be 'written to files' when you want. The 'tags' are properties of each tagged file. When you 'copy' a file, the metadata are also copied. By the way, imagine you cut a photo with two persons into two distinct cropped copies, they inherit both persons names...

Or the system face recognition feature, which is based on scanning and visual analysis of the contents of all scanned image, and which results in creating a kind of 'stack' around a distinct 'face' identification. Each member in the stack gets the location coordinates of the face in each photo. Everything is saved in the catalog. So all the information about individual faces in multiple photos is NOT something you can copy or store in the photo file themselves, just like you can't store normal stacks info, version sets or albums in the files themselves.

It's not a matter of if it's possible to program that 'copy' or not, it's that's the idea of a copy is meaningless for the job, you absolutely need to use the face detection features for the copies. A face is not a person. I don't need or use face detection because:

- I am tagging manually 'persons' since year 1999.

- I don't care where the face is in a photo, but I may need several keywords for the same person, first name, married name, nickname and more. I alwo use captions and notes for the context.

- I only use keywords when I judge it necessary, so most faces don't need analysing

So, it's possible that in your own requirements, you may need to add 'normal' person tagging to face recognition, or captions or even notes for big group shots.

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