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megagrumpyness
Known Participant
August 5, 2022
Answered

Maintaining Tag structure on re-install

  • August 5, 2022
  • 2 replies
  • 1996 views

I have a large number of photos and I I have tagged them all with peoples names, events etc in the organiser. The Tags are arranged in a hierarchical structure to make them easy to locate. Previously when I have had to reinstall photoshop Elements using a back up because I have upgraded my OS or the HW I have lost the structure and when the tags are imported they are all under the "Other" tags label. Is there any way to maintain the structure?

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Correct answer MichelBParis

My apologies - I was using Import when I should have been using the word Restore. I think I have also been getting confused with the difference between the Catalog - which i think is just a database file - which I have in the same directory structure as the photos and the Catalog when it is backed up using the Backup Catalog feature. From what you are saying this does not just backup the catalog but also backs up the photographs and maintains the file structure and all the tag information. So when you restore the catalog you have to do it to an empty area not one that is already populated with the photo files. Am I understanding this correctly? 

 

So a restore from a full catalog backup should look exactly the same as it looked prior to the backup. Is this correct?

 

Once again sorry to be so dense but the previous time when my PC crashed I think I may have tried to restore the catalog by downloading all the photos and the catalog from OneDrive rather than restore from the PSE Backup.


quote

My apologies - I was using Import when I should have been using the word Restore. I think I have also been getting confused with the difference between the Catalog - which i think is just a database file - which I have in the same directory structure as the photos and the Catalog when it is backed up using the Backup Catalog feature.


By @megagrumpyness

 

We are now on the right track! 'Import' or 'Restore', that's not only a matter of words, that's two existing functions of the organizer. Let's start with precisions about 'catalogs', 'catalog structure' and what I personnally call 'the library'.

- The 'catalog'.
Originally (up to PSE5) it was indeed a simple database file. From PSE6 on, it's now a distinct 'catalog folder' containing the primary database plus a number of other items managed by the catalog, like the thumbnail cache et the face recognition items.

- The Library: that's what I call the folder(s) tree(s) containing your media file.

 

The first confusion comes when Adobe speaks about 'catalog backups'.

For the organizer backups, what Adobe calls 'Catalog backup' is a special folder containing both the contents of the catalog folder, the library PLUS the necessary backup.tly file which keeps all the information about the folder structure of the library to reconstruct it in the same way from the restore destination you choose for the master folder.

So, that 'catalog backup' is a special package, not a working copy of your library. It can be moved or copied. It can be used only to 'restore' the library with the catalog and updated links (Not to be used as a second instance).

 

So, the 'backup folder' contains everything to restore. It's big, It's slow to backup, slow to restore, but fully flexible and adequate for non pros. You can choose where to restore (to migrate to a new computer for instance) and even restore on the original location if files or catalog have been corrupted in between.

 

The second confusion comes when things are changing. Most users also use external backup solutions, excellent for the library itself, fast and flexible, but inadequate for keeping the links in the catalog if the files are restored elsewhere. At the same time, Lightroom users are offered another solution skipping the backup of the library which the user has to manage on his own responsibility. The good news is that Lightroom offers a powerful and relatively simple reconnection tool to update the links in the database.

So, Adobe also starts to offer a 'catalog structure' backup solution, skipping the backup of the files of the library themselves. Imagine a simple copy of the 'catalog folder' without the thumbnail.cache which can be rebuilt automatically.

You can be prompted to do that backup at the end of your editing session. It's fast and protects you against dangers to the catalog itself. The 'reconnection' function is not there if you have to restore the library to a new drive from an external backup tool. So a good additional safety which does not completely replaces the classical Organizer 'catalog backup' including the library.

 

2 replies

MichelBParis
MichelBParis
Legend
August 31, 2022
quote

I have a large number of photos and I I have tagged them all with peoples names, events etc in the organiser. The Tags are arranged in a hierarchical structure to make them easy to locate. Previously when I have had to reinstall photoshop Elements using a back up because I have upgraded my OS or the HW I have lost the structure and when the tags are imported they are all under the "Other" tags label. Is there any way to maintain the structure?


By @megagrumpyness

 

As detailed in this discussion, the tag structure is kept in the catalogue. To keep the tag structure, you need to create a backup of your catalogue together with a backup of all your files. That's what a 'full backup' from the organizer does for you. You 'restore' everything where you want, and both are created while keeping exactly everything which is recorded in your catalog.

The big error would be to IMPORT the files. That does not recover your organization including the tags structure. At best that recovers the tags - if they have been written to files - without the structure. That does not recover extremely important data such as albums, stacks and version sets.

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop-elements/kb/backup-restore-move-catalog-photoshop.html

D
docsheila
Known Participant
September 8, 2022

I have ALWAYS done a full backup never incremental.  My original backups on my prior computer always "behaved"  and all data was restored exactly as it was prior.  My new comp. is a M1 running Montery and I tend to blame that (esp. Montery) for these problems but can't find info about a problem.   I do digi srapbnooking and have 40,000 image files and each has tags for kit, designer, papers, elements, etc and then sub-catagories for each of them.  It has worked great until I upgraded to 2021 Organizer and it's been a disaster since!  I have never lost all my tags and use those more than anything else  (i.e. pick a designer I want, then pick a color of paper or design of paper and then choose elements from 20 or more choices).  I am a good designer but not a computer person so can't begin to figure out how to fix this.  Sending a copy of the backup and catalog files but they look normal to me.  Is there any way I can just "restore" the catalog.buc file and get the tags back?  Thanks for anything you can suggest as I'm positive I've done something wrong in this very long process!!

MichelBParis
MichelBParis
Legend
August 5, 2022
quote

.......

Previously when I have had to reinstall photoshop Elements using a back up because I have upgraded my OS or the HW I have lost the structure and when the tags are imported they are all under the "Other" tags label. Is there any way to maintain the structure?


By @megagrumpyness

The recommended way to recover from a backup is to use the standard Organizer full backup and restore, as explained here:

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop-elements/kb/backup-restore-move-catalog-photoshop.html

This is the best way to keep anything restored with the same structure.

 

If you have to re-import, you know that you will lose albums, stacks, version sets and other features like Face recognition and geotagging.

 

However, for the 'standard' keywords, there is a solution to save your tags hierarchical structure into a small text file which you restore into your catalog before importing the media.

With the 'keyword/info' panel open on the right, section keywords, look at the line Keywords. Click on the down icon on the right to open a drop-down menu including 'save keyword tags to files...'

The same drop-down menu allows you to Import keyword tags to file.

 

 

    M
    megagrumpynessAuthor
    Known Participant
    August 5, 2022

    Thank you for your response. So it appears if you move the catalogue from one computer to another it is only the Keyword tags that you cam maintain the structure. I have arranged People Tags into families with the last name at one level and the first names at the next level down - ie indented. If I were to restore from a full back up those tags would appear as keywords in the other category with no structure. have I got that right?

    MichelBParis
    MichelBParis
    Legend
    August 5, 2022
    quote

    Thank you for your response. So it appears if you move the catalogue from one computer to another it is only the Keyword tags that you cam maintain the structure. I have arranged People Tags into families with the last name at one level and the first names at the next level down - ie indented. If I were to restore from a full back up those tags would appear as keywords in the other category with no structure. have I got that right?


    By @megagrumpyness

     

    No, a restore from a full backup recreates anything, including people tags in the original structure.

     

    An import in a new empty catalog from a media backup created externally will recover the tags and captions stored in the files themselves and by default, you'll find the keywords in an 'imported keyword tags' category. If you want to get the keywords at import time in the same category/subcategory structure as the original, that is possible. You create the small text with the hierarchy in the original computer. Before importing the media files, you add that structure to your empty catalog so that the import uses the right hierarchy instead of the flat default 'imported keywords.

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