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RedSanders
Known Participant
July 23, 2021
Question

Placeholder?

  • July 23, 2021
  • 7 replies
  • 821 views

When working with "UnNamed" faces, I frequently look at the Media that Organizer associates with a face so as to positively identify the person.  Many times I add or confirm the name of that and possibly other persons in those media.  When I return the the grid showing the faces of "UnNamed" faces, the image above takes the place of the face of the person with whom I am working.  My searches for an answer are probably unsuccessful because I'm using the wrong terminology in calling this image a "Placeholder"..  So, chances are this question may been answered in other threads here, and I have missed them.  However, I have perused all illustrations in the online Adobe Elements Organizer, Help and tutorials" and haven't spotted this image, nor could I even find the use of  the term "UnNamed" in that source - which is the very term Organizer displays above the faces of the "UnNamed".

 

So, am I doing something wrong?  And, can the "Placeholders" be deleted without any effect on the media files with which I was working.

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7 replies

Greg_S.
Community Expert
Greg_S.Community Expert
Community Expert
August 5, 2021

I'm still scratching my head.

@RedSanders said:

I have imported media from family members that I have yet to examine.

Are you saying that newly imported files are creating new generic icons?  Or have the generic icons been generated only by past activity. And do any of the files that you are importing have metadata with names that are the same as those in your existing catalog?

 

And as I understand your response, you have generic icons in the UnNamed People room but they either have no other files associated with them or the files in the stack have no generic faces appear.  In other words the generic icons only appear when viewing all of the stacks, not when digging down to the contents of the stack?

Greg_S.
Community Expert
Greg_S.Community Expert
Community Expert
July 31, 2021

I'm running out of ideas here.  

For the UnNamed People stacks that have a generic icon:

  •  are there more than one generic icon in the stack if you use the Faces option?
  • have you clicked through the images in the stack to find the media?  If so, what tag information is available for each photo in the stack?  Do you see any commonality?

If there is only one generic icon in each stack and/or you cannot open the media file, I suggest doing a repair and optimization of your catalog.  (File>Manage catalogs dialog.)  If that doesn't fix it, use the Don't Show Again command for the generic icon.

R
RedSandersAuthor
Known Participant
August 5, 2021

Hahaha, Greg you are a bulldog with problems.  We are very fortunate to have you here in this forum!

 

There are no generic icons among the faces nor the media associated with a generic icon in the UnNamed window.  And yes, I have clicked through the media, and while the program may "see" a commonality, for the life of me, I can't spot any.  If I had been doing something with the media, and then the generic icon appeared, then somehow I was creating the circumstances that caused its display.  But, in most, if not all, I'm looking at the media associated with the generic icon for the first time.  (I have imported media from family members that I have yet to examine.) 

 

Once I look at the faces associated with ageneric icon, I then know which face with which it is associated.  I then either name the person, under the generic icon, or in each of the photos.  Or in some cases they are media that I don't want to keep and I just delete them from the Catalog and the drive.  But, why the program created them in the first place, I too remain at a loss for the cause.

 

And, as mentioned earlier, since I am doing a lot of work with the faces and names, I repair and optimize my catalog, reboot fairly frequently, and continuing working.  And the generic icons remain and more appear as the program examines more media.

Greg_S.
Community Expert
Greg_S.Community Expert
Community Expert
July 28, 2021

You haven't told us whether you have been through the Find>All missing files process that I suggested.  It's the only option I can think of that would explain the generic icons in the UnNamed People room.

 

If there are no missing files in your catalog, I suggest you go through the process of opening the UnNamed stack and manually using the Mark Face tool to name any people you want to name in each of the photos.  While it may take a little time, it seems to be a manageable number.  And if you are able to see all of the faces in an UnNamed stack, are all of them generic icons or just some?

 

I have no current experience with using two monitors with Elements, but I have seen enough problems reported by users who do have two monitors to know that Elements is not optimized for their use.  Just as an experiment, disable one of the monitors and see if your Media/Faces option appearance is improved.  Same suggestion if you have a wired mouse you can plug in.

 

R
RedSandersAuthor
Known Participant
July 30, 2021

Ran Find>All missing files  - only 12 were listed.  Since I have thousands of photos and videos, I knew it would take a while for Organizer to find them, if indeed they could be found.  And, I sincerely doubted they are so important that I had to keep them.  So, deleted all 12, including a check to remove them from the drive.  Closed Organizer.

 

Shut down, disconnected older monitor, rebooted, confirmed that Windows was seeing only one monitor.  Opened Organizer and the UnNamed room has 19 generic icons.  Checked 5  or 6 of them, Media and Faces still not visible under the generic icons when I click on them, but are seen when I click on any others that have a face.

 

Only variable that I haven't checked is replacing the wireless mouse with a wired one.  We are still in temorary housing (a trailer) waiting for our home to restored from damage from last summer's hurricanes.  Normally would have a couple of old wired mice around - but almost everything we have is in storage.  Sooo, just gonna live with the generic icons, unless there is still something else to try.

 

Thanks!

Greg_S.
Community Expert
Greg_S.Community Expert
Community Expert
July 26, 2021

You can use the Find>All Missing Files menu to delete or relink any files that have been moved, renamed or deleted outside of the Organizer.  I suspect that if you fix the missing files, you will no longer have any generic icons in the UnNamed People stacks.

 

As for the Media and Faces options not appearing under a stack, does this happen in both the Named and UnNamed People rooms?  What is the size and resolution of your monitor?  And do you use a wireless mouse?  Please give us a screenshot of a selected stack that does not have the options visible.

 

 

R
RedSandersAuthor
Known Participant
July 28, 2021

Currently, there are no generic icons in my Named room, even though before I started trying to solve this problem, I "think" there were some there.  The image above is 1 of the 22 that are currently in my "UnNamed" room.  I've placed the cursor on it and selected a tall enough area so that a tiny part of the stack below is seen, thus showing that the Media and Faces options are not displayed.  

 

My Display adapter is a NVIDIA GeForce TTX 750 Ti.  I have two monitors, the latest is an ASUS VS228T-P21.5" full HD 1920 x 1080 DVI.  The driver for this monitor from ASUS is installed.  Windows 10, 64bit shows that it is running at a 1920 x 1080 resolution.   I AM using a wireless mouse - which makes me curious as to why you think this would be a factor to be considered.  I'm running Elements Organizer 2020 ver. 18.0(20201207.m.154403.  Windows is set for autoupdates.  I reboot on a timely basis.

 

My combination of hardware has served me quite well when doing some pretty involved edits to our home videos in Premiere Elements 2020.  But, Greg please let me know if you see a problem in this combo.  I'm always ready to make things better.  I continue to think that there's some procedure that I'm using that is causing the generic icons to appear.  So, I am working to eliminate the 22 that are there, and then be on the alert for any more generic icons that appear and hopefully I can recall what I just did to cause Organizer to create the generic icon.

 

I continue to appreciate your dilligence and help with this matter!

Greg_S.
Community Expert
Greg_S.Community Expert
Community Expert
July 25, 2021

Even on my fairly high-powered computer, it can take a moment or two for the Media and Faces options to appear under an UnNamed stack.  So there is nothing unusual there.  There is a lot of data that has to be refreshed on screen with each command or mouse movement you make.

 

The only way I can imagine a generic icon appearing in an UnNamed People stack is if face recognition has taken place on a photo, a face has been found, and you then delete or move the photo in Windows File Explorer rather than within the Organizer.  (You should never do that.)  Is that a possibility?

R
RedSandersAuthor
Known Participant
July 26, 2021

I built this computer with some pretty good parts (fast processor, beefy video card, ram, SSD drive for OS, etc.) to support the work I do on editing the thousands of family photos and hundreds of family videos I've collected over a long time.  (I'm nearing 79, so I'm kinda the family curator.)  The Media and Faces option doesn't appear even after leaving Organizer running for a few days.  Having worked with databases, I'm aware of the need for "clean up", so on a fairly consistent basis, I repair and optimize my catalog, reboot, and continuing working.  And the generic icons remain.

 

Now, after frequently reading the advice in this community to restrict deleting and moving photos to the Organizer environment, I "almost" always do that - with an occasional lapse to my old habits. 🙂  Once I clear up the current ones, I will faithfully restrict all deletions, moves, etc. to Organizer and see if the generic icons reappear.  If so, I'll post such here.

Greg_S.
Community Expert
Greg_S.Community Expert
Community Expert
July 24, 2021

I'm not sure what you are proposing to do with the generic icon.  I believe the only way to delete them is to select the People tag in the Media Tags panel and delete the tag.  This will remove the People tag name from all photos that have been tagged with that name. So, you probably don't want to do that.

 

Depending on the number of photos involved, you may want to try the following:

  • Open the image with a generic tag in Full Screen View in the Media grid (double-click to zoom in)
  • Use the Mark Face tool to select a person's face
  • Add the same name with which you have already tagged the person in the photo

When you go back to the Named People room and choose that person's stack, the generic icon will be replaced with the face that you have marked.

 

There is another possibility that I have not yet tested.  You could select all the generic icons in a Named People stack and then hit the Not this person button.  This, in theory, will put the named person back into the UnNamed People stack.  BUT, I'm not sure this will work in the scenario you have presented.  As I think about it, if the person's face has been recognized, but a name has not yet been added to the recognized face, the face should still be in a stack in the UnNamed People room.  Perhaps you can check whether I am correct about this.  If you first filter the Media grid by a folder in which a photo you have tagged manually appears, then go to the UnNamed People room, you will see only stacks of UnNamed People whose photos are in that folder.  (Don't forget to uncheck the hide small stacks box.) You can then name a stack and the generic icon for that person in that folder's photos should disappear.  Please report back if my theories are correct.

R
RedSandersAuthor
Known Participant
July 25, 2021

Greg, many thanks for staying with me on this.

 

There was only one generic icon in my "Named" group.  I kept clicking it so as to see what face or media was associated with it, and it finally displayed the persons face.  I then selected "Assign as Profile Picture" and the face replaced he generic icon.  So, success there.

 

However, in the "UnNamed" area there are a number of generic icons.  Double clicking any one of them doesn't cause cause a change - that is, no faces or media are shown, nor are the words "Media" or "Faces" displayed below the generic icon.  Right clicking on the icon produced the choices of "Add Name" "Don't show again",  Then by accident, I clicked below one of the generic icons, and presto, media appeared.  To repeat, there was no text in the area in which I clicked.  Experimenting more, I found that if I clicked below and to the left of the generic icon - where one would expect the word "Media" to be, then indeed, the Meida would appear.  Clicking on the lower right area below the generic icon resulted in faces appearing! 

 

While this doesn't lead me to understand why the generic icons appeared.  But, at least I now know now that I can select one of the faces as the Profile Picture, or just delete the icon if the faces are not folks I want to be identified, such as bystanders, faces in a church crowd that I don't know, etc.

 

Problem "kinda" solved, but it still bugs me as to what I am doing to make the generic icons appear.

 

Again, thanks!

Greg_S.
Community Expert
Greg_S.Community Expert
Community Expert
July 23, 2021

I don't know that there is an official name for the image you have inserted into your post.  I usually call them generic People icons.  They come into existence when you tag an image by click and dragging a People name tag to the image (or vice versa).  Simply adding a People tag to an image does not associate the person's face with the tag.  That can only be done in one of the following ways:

  • Applying a name to an UnNamed People stack
  • Confirming that a person's face is within a Named People stack
  • Adding the name to a face that appears with a circle when you hover over it in the Media Grid
  • Using the Mark Face tool when in Single Image View in the Media Grid

 

@RedSanders said:  Many times I add or confirm the name of that and possibly other persons in those media.

As I understand your description, you first go to the UnNamed People room and open a stack by clicking on it and using Media option under a stack.  You then double-click on one of the images in the stack which takes you to a grid and if necessary double-click again to zoom in to Single Image View (or use the zoom control for that purpose). 

 

You confirm the identity of the person in the stack and then add the name tag for that person either via the Add a Person option in the context menu or via the Image Tags text entry box in the lower right of the Info panel.  Since the image may have multiple other people in it, you choose to name them in the same fashion.  If this is what you are doing, you will end up either with a generic icon (in the case of the Add a Person method) or with a Keyword Tag applied instead of a People tag (in the case of the Info Panel text entry.

 

If, on the other hand, you are hovering over a face and entering a name in the Add Name box atached to a face circle, you should be getting a face thumbnail for that person in the Named People stack.  You may momentarily see the generic icon in the UnNamed People stack but that will be removed from the stack since the person has been named.

 

Hopefully, I have explained what you are seeing.  But if I have misinterpreted your workflow, please let us know and give us more details.

 

R
RedSandersAuthor
Known Participant
July 24, 2021

Thanks Greg,

Yes, I am using the procedure you accurately described "You confirm the identiy..."  So...since I have added name tags to all that I know in the image, are there any consequences realized if I then delete the generic icon?

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