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Raw and JPEG not stacking

Forum|Forum|2 years ago
January 14, 2024
9 replies
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Elements 2024, Windows 11, Canon RP

I've used Lightroom for many years and now I'm trying out Elements as I don't want to pay a monthly subscription. When I import files from my camera or from a folder on my PC, either in bulk or by selecting them all, they are imported OK, but they do not stack as I expected. I don't think it was even an option in Lightroom - the Raw and JPEG appeard as a single photo in the organiser. That's what I want in Elements.

I have ticked the option in Preferences | Camera or Card Reader (APD) to Automatically Stack Raw and JPEG, but it makes no difference. Also, if I read this correctly, the stacking doesn't work for Bulk Import, which is bonkers - if I want to import many days' photos, they are all in different folders so even if it did work, I'd have to do each folder separately.

Finally, the option of import From Files and Folders has an option to Get Photos from Subfolders, but this is greyed out. It appears to be ticked but it doesn't work as I can't select a folder to get all the images below it.

To be clear - I don't want it to suggest Stacks of similar images. I want every image imported to be a pair of CR3 raw and JPEG.

Correct answer Greg_S.

Just to be clear, you cannot stack jpeg/raw files except when importing new files from a camera or card reader. However, if you use the Find>By Visual Searches, it may make it easier to stack the raw/jpeg files that should always be found together. Admittedly, it will also suggest similar files, e.g. those shot in a burst. But you have the option to select a pair of files and stack them both within the dialog and also in the main grid.

For many years, I have been requesting that Adobe allow jpeg/raw files to be stacked automatically from any Import module. But I'm not holding my breath for any change in this feature.

Greg_S.

Community Expert

@TJM73 , I have downloaded your photos and imported them into a new catalog using the APD. Only two pairs of jpg/orf files were stacked. These were the two that seem to have the original names given by the camera. It appears to me that the others have been given new names, and they appear in the Organizer in a random chronological order. I suspect that if you batch renamed the files, the batch processing created date and times that are off by milliseconds and Elements does not recognize them as being the same jpeg/raw files to stack. This is purely a guess on my part.

I understand that automatically suggesting stacks would be a demanding and time-consuming task. I was only making this suggestion in the event that we couldn't get the APD to work properly in the future.

As for your problem with activations, there is a new system in place that should allow you to install on a replacement computer even though your old computer crashed and could not be deactivated. See the instructions in this post by an Adobe Employee which links to this page for activating offline. (Although the webpage refers to Elements 2019, it supposedly works for other more recent versions.) I am going to ping @Jeffrey_A_Wright (who wrote the linked post) to see whether your purchase from a Finnish retailer complicates the issue.

@Jeffrey_A_Wright , the user has a problem with the program because part is in English and part is in his foreign language. He purchased from the Finnish Adobe website. Does that change things for him with trying to activate offline? (I will report the localization issue to the Elements developers.)

Greg_S.

Community Expert

One other possibility going forward: Check the APD's box to Automatically Suggest Photo Stacks. It would then be more manageable to stack your raw/jpeg files even if you shoot in bursts. So, for example, the dialog that appears may have many files shot in a single burst as a suggestion for a stack. But if I recall correctly, you can select the images, two at a time, and stack them.

Greg_S.

Community Expert

@TJM73, yes it looks like there is a complete failure in the translation of the dialog box. I am going to report this issue to Adobe. (It may take a while for me to get a response.) You should definitely keep that box checked.

If you would like to attach a couple of your original jpeg/raw files to a reply or send them to me via private message, I will see if there is any problem with importing them into a stack. I'm not sure if you can attach a raw file to a forum post, but if you zip the files, perhaps I can get them.

I don't think it has anything to do with the program's language but see if changing your region in the Preferences dialog makes any difference:

In order to change the language of the program itself, I believe it would be necessary to uninstall and reinstall it. The first dialog on installation asks you for the language you want to use. Did you choose English? Also, do you have the latest update for Elements 2024 installed? There were some problems for foreign language versions when it was first released. If you look at the Organizer's Help>About Elements Organizer screen, you should have the same version as mine:

At this point, you may want to try contacting Elements support. You can start a chat session by going to the Contact Adobe Support page. Make sure you are signed into your Adobe account and a chat window should open automatically. Try typing Agent when the chat window opens so that you can avoid the robo chat.

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TJM73

Participating Frequently

Hi,

I believe I have the same version as you (screenshot).
I had already thought about changing the region so it has been US for a last couple of days with no effect.
I don't unfortunately recall which language I originally used to install the Editors.
- I had to buy the Photoshop Elements editor and Premiere Elements editor from Finnish Adobe website.
- I might have had a choice of installation language or it might have been forced to Finnish and then I have changed in settings.
- Elements Organizer and Adobe Photo Importer came included in the bundle with Editors and were guided installations.
If I were to use the "automatically suggest stacks" it would be very demanding manual task to pair 15000 photos. And yes you could choose two photos at a time.

PSE Editors only have two installations included in the licence and unfortunately I have already had to use both very soon after buying the software. We had a lightning strike nearby which fried my computer and afterwards I wasn't able to sign out of Elements in that laptop. This was also really was disappointing and I would have thought the customer service would have been able to sign me out.

Am I able to do new installations of Adobe Photo Importer or Elements Organizer even though I have used both of my licences for Editors?

I will contact the support via Adobe website chat.

@Greg_S. Thanks a lot for your help.

Greg_S.

Community Expert

@TJM73 said:

I don't have that option in the Adobe Photo Downloader (APD). I only have this option in theEdit - preferences - Camera or card reader - Automatically Stack RAW and JPEG.

You must be in the APD's Standard Mode. If you still haven't found it, click on the Advanced Mode button in the lower left corner:

It should not take half an hour to stack photos. The process should start almost immediately.
The language difference is clearly a bug and, unfortunately, it is one that I have seen occassionally with localization of different languages, particularly Finnish.
I'm not sure whether the third box you mention is from the Standard or the Advanced APD dialog. In either event it shouldn't make any difference.
In the past, I have read about some differences in the way Olympus handles its camera file management. I don't know whether that has anything to do with your problem.

Please confirm that the problem still exists if you are using the Advanced dialog.

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TJM73

Participating Frequently

Hi,

I'm using the exact same advanced settings as you are showing (screenshots below). I now tried the third box ticked just in case it just had completely wrong Finnish label. I imported 8 photos in total (4 pairs). I have now waited for 5 minutes but still no stacks.

Unfortunately I only have two Olympus camerea bodies. I might try photos from the other body as well. It certainly would be interesting to see if this was any different with other camera makes.

To be honest this is quite disappointing and makes things quite difficult. Is there anything else that could be done/tried? Could I get English version of the Adobe Phote Importer somehow.

Greg_S.

Community Expert

@TJM73 , are you saying that even with new files the Organizer will not stack the jpeg+raw images? You mention that you have Edit>Preferences ticked to stack these files. Do you also have that option ticked in the advanced dialog of the Adobe Photo Downloader? Although the Preferences and the APD should be consistently the same, I believe I have seen instances when they are different.

Also, when you use this method, the photos will initially be imported and displayed as separate photos but then after a short period they will be stacked together.

As for copying your jpeg/raw files to a memory card, I don't think I have ever used that option so have no experience on whether or how that will work. IIRC, my only experience has been with copying the files to a portable drive which Elements recognizes as a device for purposes of using the APD. (Not all external drives are portable drives. I think this depends on whether they have their own power source rather than relying upon the USB connection.)

Based upon your goal of stacking only single jpeg+raw files and not wanting to stack bursts of similar images, I agree that the other available methods do not suit your needs. If you are willing to stack your bursts, it will be fairly easy but perhaps time consuming.

And I don't think the difference between Windows' Date Modified and Date Created metadata makes any difference to Elements. Elements principally uses the Date/Time Digitized (usually the same as Date Taken) for displaying a camera's photo files. With a long burst and a slow buffer, there may be a slight difference.

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TJM73

Participating Frequently

@TJM73 , are you saying that even with new files the Organizer will not stack the jpeg+raw images? You mention that you have Edit>Preferences ticked to stack these files. Do you also have that option ticked in the advanced dialog of the Adobe Photo Downloader? Although the Preferences and the APD should be consistently the same, I believe I have seen instances when they are different.

Also, when you use this method, the photos will initially be imported and displayed as separate photos but then after a short period they will be stacked together.

As for copying your jpeg/raw files to a memory card, I don't think I have ever used that option so have no experience on whether or how that will work. IIRC, my only experience has been with copying the files to a portable drive which Elements recognizes as a device for purposes of using the APD. (Not all external drives are portable drives. I think this depends on whether they have their own power source rather than relying upon the USB connection.)

Based upon your goal of stacking only single jpeg+raw files and not wanting to stack bursts of similar images, I agree that the other available methods do not suit your needs. If you are willing to stack your bursts, it will be fairly easy but perhaps time consuming.

And I don't think the difference between Windows' Date Modified and Date Created metadata makes any difference to Elements. Elements principally uses the Date/Time Digitized (usually the same as Date Taken) for displaying a camera's photo files. With a long burst and a slow buffer, there may be a slight difference.

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Hi @Greg_S.

1. Are you saying that even with new files the Organizer will not stack the jpeg+raw images?

Hi That's correct. I have now just repeated it with new photos and also this time waited for 30 minutes for 6 pairs to be stacked. Again no success. I have not waited previously. I'll let them to stay there now but surely it can't be that slow.

2a. Do you also have that option ticked in the advanced dialog of the Adobe Photo Downloader?

2b. Although the Preferences and the APD should be consistently the same, I believe I have seen instances when they are different.

2a. Actually no. My settings in ADP are actually different (2b) and I had noticed that. I saw you other discussion about this (2b) and it was several years old so I thought the software had changed. I don't have that option in the Adobe Photo Downloader (APD). I only have this option in theEdit - preferences - Camera or card reader - Automatically Stack RAW and JPEG.

For some strange reason the ADP software is in my native Finnish language although all other PSE parts are in English.

In ADP page there are the same amount boxes to be ticked as you had indicated in your screenshot. In my APD the third option in my Finnish version is different and it is "Tee ryhmän mukautettu nimi koodina". Google translation for this is "Make a custom name for the group as a code". I have also tried ticking this box just in case there was a completely wrong label in Finnish version. It didn't produce stacks but I did not wait for the delay you mentioned. Maybe later I will rerun that option and wait.

Greg_S.

Community Expert

@TJM73, there are several issues and solutions discussed in this thread, so I don't know what you mean when you say you have the same problem and tried the instructions. Please be more specific.

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TJM73

Participating Frequently

"@TJM73, there are several issues and solutions discussed in this thread, so I don't know what you mean when you say you have the same problem and tried the instructions. Please be more specific."

Thanks @Greg_S.
I will try and explain in more detail

I am trying to achieve these:

All future photos taken with ORF+JPEG setting would be stacked automatically in pairs (2 photos)
All my old photos taken with ORF + JPEG setting would be now imported to my PSE catalogue and would be stacked automatically in pairs
Stacking should only stack the ORF+JPEG combo consisting those 2 photos because I have 15 000 old photos with this setting and a lot of them visually similar shot in burst mode. Therefore manually stacking would be laborous.

Solutions:

Importing from camera or card reader – TRIED - UNSUCCESFULL
- TICKED: Edit - preferences - Camera or card reader - Automatically Stack RAW and JPEG
- I have now tried this with
  - brand new photos taken yesterday and imported from card reader
  - Old photos copied to SD card and imported from card reader
- Importing in Bulk> add folder (External HD) - TRIED - UNSUCCESFULL
- Importing from files and folders (External HD) - TRIED - UNSUCCESFULL
- Find>By Visual Searches>similar photos - NOT TRIED - I BELIEVE THIS IS NOT SUITABLE FOR MY CURRENT GOAL (2 PHOTO ORF + JPEG STACK) ?
  - I have 15 000 orf + jpeg photos with lot of them visually similar and shot in burst mode.

Greg_S.

Community Expert

You can copy files to a memory card or thumb drive (or some portable drives) and then use the Adobe Photo Downloader to import them to your catalog (and save them to your hard drive with a variety of naming schemes).

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TJM73

Participating Frequently

I have the same problem and no success even after reading the discussion and following the instructions.

I have ticked in preferences: "Edit - preferences - Camera or card reader - Automatically Stack RAW and JPEG"

And then I will go and execute "Import - From Camera or Card reader - etc...."

Still after import the photos I have no stacks and all the photos are displayed seperately.

My gear:
HP 840 G5, + Win 10 + Photoshop Elements Oranizer 2024 + Files: orf (Olympus RAW) & Jpeg.

T

TJM73

Participating Frequently

I did notice that at least the practice files which I have now used have an interesting detail. The ORF and JPEG files have the same date and time in Photoshop elements but in the Windows File explorer there is difference. The files have the same time in "date created" but "date modified" has 3,5 hours difference. Could this effect and cause problems to Photoshop Elements Organiser when stacking even though Organiser does show the exact same time? I will try to find files with exact same times.

Greg_S.

Correct answer

Community Expert

Just to be clear, you cannot stack jpeg/raw files except when importing new files from a camera or card reader. However, if you use the Find>By Visual Searches, it may make it easier to stack the raw/jpeg files that should always be found together. Admittedly, it will also suggest similar files, e.g. those shot in a burst. But you have the option to select a pair of files and stack them both within the dialog and also in the main grid.

For many years, I have been requesting that Adobe allow jpeg/raw files to be stacked automatically from any Import module. But I'm not holding my breath for any change in this feature.

D

DJRowleyAuthor

Participating Frequently

Ah, I see. There's a separate dialogue for Import from Card Reader or Camera. I've never done this in any app - I prefer to be in charge of moving files around so I have scripts to physically copy the photos from the card reader to the PC, then I run the import process from the filestore. It's irritating but I understand how to do it at least. Thanks,

D

DJRowleyAuthor

Participating Frequently

Hmmmm, I wonder if I can fool the PC into thinking that a sectoin of filestore is actually a memory card. I had stopped my Pixel from shooting in raw because my old Lightroom couldn't process them, but I had wondered about using it again. However, I usually download the photos from Google Photos rahter than directly from the phone. I'm not even sure where the phone stores photos. More experimenting to be done ...

Monte307

Inspiring

In addition to the Preferences - 'Camera or Card Reader', is ‘Automatically Stack Raw and JPEG’ selected via File - 'Get Photos and Videos' - 'From Camera or Card Reader'? (see attached screenshots). I tested a bulk import and they stacked ok on my machine (Mac, Elements 2023, Nikon).

D

DJRowleyAuthor

Participating Frequently

Thanks, yes, I had also ticked that box.

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