Known Participant

Question

Full range & Legal Range for video in adobe Premire question

Forum|Forum|3 years ago
July 7, 2022
3 replies
7951 views

On the Atomos Ninja V recorder you can select Legal range or turn it off and get full range signal.

the question is can PR read full Range signal when inporting footage? Full Range on wave form would be 0 to 1095 = in 10bit

Legal range would be 64 to 1000 = in 10bit ( broadcast safe.

I herd from youtube channels that its best to keep video footage in Legal range becuse PR only reads video footage as broadcast safe or legal range.

is this correct?

Please Help!

B

Billionaire Watches

Participant

Full Range: Uses the entire 0–255 (RGB) or 0–1023 (YUV) range — best for computer playback.
Legal Range: Uses 16–235 (RGB) or 64–940 (YUV) — standard for broadcast TV.

R

rgr3

Participant

To be precise, YUV and RGB use 0-255 (8 bit) and 0-1023 (10 bit) for full range. Limited range is 16-235/240 and 64-940 for RGB and YUV. However, RGB limited range is rare.

R Neil Haugen

Legend

You are mistaking the levels shown in the two bit ranges for data encoded.

Both 8 bit and 10 bit encode the same data to the file ... it's the encoding math that changes. Both in encoding to file in the recording device, and decoding in the displaying device. As has been demonstrated over and over by color scientists ad infinitum.

For instance, if an 8 bit file only starts with 219 levels, it will have very obvious banding right off the bat. Very obvious banding.

Again, this has been shown in presentations on levels versus bit depth discussions.

And as soon as you touch any tonal (luminance) or color (chrominance) tool, it gets real nasty.

So if your assumption was correct, an uncorrected 8-bit file wouldn't really ever be useful professionally, period. And you certainly couldn't do anything to the file.

Please ... don't confuse "levels" with "encoded data" ... they are mathematically different parts of the process.

And yea, this is so freaking non-obvious and counter-intuitive. But it's something that colorists have drilled into them off the bat ... if they are trained by experienced colorists.

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

R

rgr2

Inspiring

Virtually everything reads both limited and full range. Most current equipment records in full range. Premiere reads full range, but does it quite lamely. Vegas reads without a problem.

R Neil Haugen

Legend

"Most current equipment records in full range."

Certainly not my experience. Other than the Sony prosumer A7 rigs, and I think some Panny's offer the option also.

What gear do you use? I run both a BMPCC4K, and an Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k G2. Neither do ProRes in full. Not even an option. And of the files I get in to work and test from others, I've never had this.

Except for some of those running A7s, again. And a couple other cameras.

But even most of the A7 media I've worked with was recorded in legal, as expected.

Because again, you do not get one tiny bit more data in a full level encoding ... and most displays still assume YUV Rec.709 to be legal ... so why create the hassle for absolutely no gain?

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

3

38mikeAuthor

Known Participant

Neal my post is old

can you delete it. I am no longer asking questions on this post

thanks

R Neil Haugen

Legend

SDR video ... standard dynamic range video media, or "Rec.709" ... has standards set for it. And Premiere Pro follows those standards.

First, understand that the entire legal/limited 'thing' is about how the data is encoded to the file, not the number of values in the file. A common misconception.

YUV (technically Y/CbCr) media, which is nearly every camera out there, is supposed to be encoded as 'limited' or 'legal' range, 16-235. It will be displayed by any properly set monitor as 0-255.

RGB media ... typically 12-bit or higher, and most often produced in only very expensive cameras ... is set by standards to be encoded as 0-255, and displayed 0-255.

Setting that recorder to 'full' for SDR media doesn't get you any additional values for SDR/Rec.709 clips. It just makes a mess out of using them in an NLE. And maybe on many monitors/screens also.

And for most log-encoded and all HDR media, there isn't any limited/legal/full issue to begin with.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

3

38mikeAuthor

Known Participant

neal, i should keep my prores HQ 422 10 bit on Legal range? I can set it in the fujifilm camera or the NINJA V- atomos. i am shooting fuji log

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