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Question

How to transcode Canon 5D mark II H.264 video into something editable?

Forum|Forum|17 years ago
December 22, 2008
63 replies
75919 views

QT Pro v7.5 plays my 5Dm2 native video files just fine. Premiere CS4 however... unusable. I've heard that transcoding the H.264 40Mbps videos to another format allows a better editing experience.

Hardware:
Dell Precision 690, 1 quad-core 3GHz processor, 12GB RAM, 15000 rpm SAS system drive, 1TB SATA video disk (non-RAID), 1TB SATA temp disk (non-RAID), Quadro FX 3500 graphics card (non-CUDA unfortunately)

Question is... what is the most efficient format to transcode into?

A tutorial on Vimeo for Final Cut Pro on a mac mentions HDCAM EX as a format to use. (http://www.vimeo.com/2373679)
I don't see that option as shown on the Mac from my Vista box using either Adobe Media Encoder CS4 or MPEG Streamclip v1.2.

If I start a project in Premiere CS4 using the HDCAM EX 1080p presets, what is the corresponding Media Encoder format to choose for converting my clips before importing to Premiere?

I'm currently testing the following output format in AME:
MPEG2 Blu-Ray: 1920x1080,23.976 fps, Progressive, Quality 5, no audio, VBR 2-pass, bitrate setings of 25 min 35 target 40 max.

Has anyone determined a transcoding process that provides full HD quality while maintaining any ability to scrub and edit Canon 5D mark II video in Premiere CS4?

This topic has been closed for replies.

Bob Dix Photographer

Known Participant

No , but you can easily do it by using the cheap Premiere Elements 4, place the H.264 MOV clips, 4GB at a time into the timeline>render> export to movie>Save to Premiere Pro, it comes in as a Cineform avi file or Microsoft aiv., make uncompressed,at Pre-determined Project setting> render if you must> edit should be fast> Export to Tape in HDV or save as m2t file , Import in Elements and Export to Blu-ray if you wish , you could edit in Premiere Elements but, Premiere Pro 1.5.1 leaves it for dead. CS 4 or CS5 should work , but, CS5 should work without all the messing around.You will need an Adobe System requirements computer ?

Good luck.

Message was edited by: Bob Dix

Ps Obviously Quicktime Version 7.6.8 should be installed so that you can use the H.264 MOV files ?

Message was edited by: Bob Dix

Ie., (1675)

PaulieDC

Inspiring

It's funny Bob, this thread began before CS5 was officially released... and now we see what it can do there's really no reason to clutch to previous versions. I have to be totally honest, I sometimes want to holler out "LOOK, CS5 is light years ahead with that MPE, just invest in it and an i7 rig with a boatload of ram a $300 GTX 470 and you won't have any problems!!". I do understand that people are on budgets, I really do, but to be honest, high-end video editing is not for the budget constrained, that's all there is to it. I may not make friends saying that, but it's true... you can't nickel-and-dime-and-freeware if you want pro results. Folks need to start out with a consumer HD cam and Premiere Elements if they have a budget under $500, and just use that to learn editing at a basic level, there's a lot you can learn in that environment. But I see on other forums that people are actually appalled that we tell 'em they need more than one hard drive or that their Compaq Presario with integrated graphics is not going to cut it. It's the same in photography, people balk at my $1500 16-35mm lens and say "I can get an 18-200mm for 150 bucks!"... yeah, and the images look like it to. I dunno, guess I'm just rambling, I just think people who want to do this should get serious and make a commitment with time and money. I'm just sayin'...

Bob Dix Photographer

Known Participant

Hi Pauline DC,

Somhow this original problem ended up in my e-mail and I thought it had been solved long ago. Mind you, I have been very ill and just recovering, just as well I thought it was the 21 century and CS5 had not solved the issue.

In any case we have run the curse of H.264 mov files from the lovely Canon 5D Mark II and have had few problems using Adobe Premiere Elements 4 and Premiere Pro 1.5.1, for 5 years just happened to be in the old Pentium 4 3.2GHS with Raid and hyper-threading and it used to handle this stuff with some sort of difficulty,.have done it seems 100's Export to Tape and now Blu-ray where will it all end , I used to run 35mm in the old days and sometimes you wonder where all the quality has gone, some photographers can't even focus on an elephant using auto focus, well I am rambling now .

Now have the latest T5500 Workstation Quad Core I7 64 bit and everything sings along, will go to CS5 when the patches etc settle down but, honestly the old software still does the job it has been revived wish it could do the same for me,..Oh,' the Nvidia Quadro FX3800 does work quite well..........

Enjoy the winter over there,, from down under>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

We are basically still photographers from the Hasselblad era, Medium Format which seems to be equalled by the Canon 5D mark II, have gone from S-Vhs Panasonics, Sony Digital, Panasonic 3CCD's SD Widescreen 16:9, Canon EX 1-Hi 8,,to Canon HDV HV20/

30/40 , and now Canon 5 D mark II, 35 mm CMOS and all the lens's, what a great time to live !

Bob

Message was edited by: Bob Dix

This was in reply to Fabrzio _Rizzo,I did not read the rest of the info, nor did I read the date , as though I had gone to sleep for two years ?

Of course we now mainly use High Definition

Richard Crook

Known Participant

I have put together a useful guide to those just starting to use the Canon 5d for cinematography, whom also use Adobe Premiere for editing. I think you'll find this will save you alot of time from searching for all of this stuff.

http://crookedpathfilms.com/blog/2010/02/04/a-comprehensive-guide-to-the-canon-5d-mk-ii-and-adobe-premiere-cs4/

Happy shooting,

Rich

PaulieDC

Inspiring

Rich, thanks for doing this article. It nicely summarizes in a "one-stop shopping" list all of the things I have researched and pulled my hair out over since the Fall of 2008 when this insane camera was announced (and I got it line to get one). I'm glad you showed NeoScene as THE conversion tool for editing, I can't seem to get that one through some people's heads on other forums... and yet they keep struggling.

BTW, the one area I see completely opposite in your list is audio. I agree that if you want the 5D2 to record audio, you need Magic Lantern and JuicedLink. But being a long-time audio guy, I can't digest the 5D2 audio regardless of the converter device, it's S/N is so-so, headroom is limited and since the camera has to churn out video it would seem that the best solution is to NOT record audio on it. So my question to you is, why not record audio separately on something like a Zoom H4N which does 24-bit audio? It has XLR inputs and Phantom power, excellent device. I'm asking that to really know the answer, because I'm missing something somewhere. To me, having the audio bed as a constant then fitting the video is a great solution. If the videographer misses the button and doesn't get the first few words, etc, the audio is still consistent, and you can always patch up the video with a B-roll clip of audience, etc, depending on what you're shooting. Anyway, just curious what the drawback of separate audio is... thanks!

Richard Crook

Known Participant

Great to hear the POV of a professional audio engineer! I should update the guide to include a sync-sound system. The only real downside to using this method is having to sync up in post. But in most cases it's worth it. But for a one-man-band like me, it bogs down the workflow tremendously.

I guess I based by decision off the sound quality from the experiments done here: http://www.canon5dtips.com/2009/08/canon-5d-mark-ii-audio-exposed-video-review/. It seems the JuicedLink is a great option, allowing direct recording to the camera without having to sync later.

I think the Juiced Link option doesn't compare to using pro audio gear in a sync sound workflow...but we can say the same thing for high-end video cameras too. I use an HVX200 with audio recording via the cam's XLR inputs all the time, because it's an accepted workflow in most video production. If I was using it decked out with a lens adapter and stuff for use in a feature film...I would hire an audio engineer to record audio seperately in the field with the appropriate mixer, etc. But people still use the camera's inputs all the time.

So I guess it comes down to what one is using the camera for.

the_wine_snob

Inspiring

B & H Photo has just published a GUIDE to using a DSLR to capture video. This might prove useful to anyone using the Canon 5D/7D, or the Nikon D-series DSLR's.

Hunt

PaulieDC

Inspiring

Thanks Hunt. It's good info, but surprisingly LATE in the game. We all went through the "how do we do this" headache many months ago. But, duh, I just realized that people are still buying these things and THEY haven't lived through Headache 2009, so this is a good post if your an FCP user. He doesn't offer much by way of us PC users, but I guess I'll have to check out the freeware converter he talks about, although it's going to be hard-pressed to beat the $99 NeoScene by Cineform. My editing problems are GONE because of that utility. True, I end up with humungous AVIs to edit (turns 1GB 5D2 raw file into 2.5gb AVI), but disk space is cheap, and you can always delete the AVIs when the project is mastered. BTW, I actually disagree with his statement that the file format should be kept in QT format, the AVIs work fine and are the preferred format for Windows. Having said that, I find that on Windows 7 it doesn't matter. I can open raw H.264 QT-format raw 5D2 video clips and play them smoothly in QT or WMP, so I guess he's half right. As soon as we can convince the world how antiquated, slow and downright KLUNKY XP is and get them switched over to 7, life gets a tad easier.

Hey, but what are we worried about?? CS5 and a GTX285 will put that whole problem to rest for PC users, right??? lol! It'd better! But since I worked out my workflow with NeoScene, I honestly forgot that I ever had editing issues.

BTW, OT: what happened to the Wine Snob nickname? We all got used to that!

the_wine_snob

Inspiring

PaulineDC,

I had not poured though the article, but just hit some of its high-points. Looked like a good bit of info.

Have you though about doing an article outlining your use of NeoScene and the Canon 5D/7D material? If you do, let me know and we can get it up in the PrE Tips & Tricks sub-forum, so that it can easily be linked for others. If you do the article, I'll get it posted to the Adobe forum.

As for the_wine_snob, well he just disappeared one day. I had a sudden issue with e-mail notification, after I tried to help someone on the Forum Comments forum. Boom! Suddenly, I was getting e-mail notification for everything posted to any of the Premiere, Photoshop and Encore fora - every post, though I had e-mail notification turned OFF for everything. After about 2000 e-mails, they stopped as suddenly, and I had become Bill Hunt. Going back to the beginning of the Adobe fora on HTTP, I was BILL HUNT, and then with the big forum changeover, I became the_wine_snob, a screen name from the distant past, that had never been used. I could not change to either BILL HUNT, or Bill Hunt, as those screen names were taken. I stopped trying, and then after that e-mail deluge, I was automatically now Bill Hunt. Why/how? I have no clue, but the e-mails stopped, so I am just rolling with the punches. Some days, the Adobe forum thinks I am WAHunt3, but I just log-out/log-in and all is cool. I just hope that WAHunt3 is not out robbing banks, or something bad. He seems to come and go, so I just ignore him.

Hunt

PS - let me know about that article, as it might well help many others.

R

Rainydaiz

Participant

I'm not sure if this would work but i read a thread a while back where the using Mpeg streamclip (free) to convert the files into the Apple intermediate codec worked.

Bob_Dix_Photographer-E0Nmzu

Participating Frequently

Mate,

You sure have a problem. Adobe Aussie tech says there is a problem with CS4 handling mov files from the 5d and a patch will be issued.

But, when?

I use a Pentium 4 3.2 GHZ running Premiere Pro 1.5.1 and the out put exported file to tape is stunning. But, I place all mov. clips on the timeline and render, it then runs smoothly, but, it takes 5 hours for 35 minutes of clips overnight.

I do need a quad core computer.

Ps. For any 1.5.1 uses still out there, if you have a c drive crash make sure the 1.5.1 upgrade is installed correctly otherwise it will not export to tape ???????

F

frostedGSXR

Participant

Hey everyone, here is a link to my blog going over the FREE workflow that I use[:

http://www.frosted.ca/2009/03/26/canon-5d-mark-ii-premier-pro-cs4-1080p-workflow/

Cheers,

Justin

Bob_Dix_Photographer-E0Nmzu

Participating Frequently

I agreee the video clips are stunning but, we use only PC. To render the clips for smooth running and editing is a pain but, it does work and makes the 5D look magic.

Any other ideas ?

C

Catmandog

Participant

Hi Guys.

I found somewhat of a solution to getting smooth video working with un re-transcoded 5d2 videos, so you don't have to transcode them at all and original file size and quality will be maintained.

What you do have to do is convert them from a .mov container into an .mp4 container, but you dont re-encode them or change codecs. You do have to process the video independently from the audio to get the converter program to successfully complete the task.

Download "Super" file converter (freeware) http://www.erightsoft.com/S6Kg1.html

- Drag and drop original 5d video onto Super

- Select MP4 as container type

- Select Direct Stream Copy for the video option (no re-encoding)

- Select Disable Audio for the audio option

- Pick your output folder by right clicking anywhere on super's interface

then hit Encode. (process is quite fast of course)

Now you'll need to do the audio on it's own.

- Select WAV as your ouput container (if you want wav?)

then manually sync up the wav file with the mp4 file in premiere

Has been working great for me. It is a mystery as to why premiere is ok with Canon's H264 codec in a .mp4 container, but not in a .mov or .avi container.

Note - During the container change you will lose the pixel aspect flag that tells premiere how to display the vid, so you'll have to manually interpret the vid as square pixels (right click in bin on the vid clip and select interpret)

Premiere reports the resolution as 1920 x 1088, but upon further investigation it is infact still 1080

Good luck

Cheers

HC

J

Joe Chott

Participant

I tried SUPER out as well, using the exact steps as provided. No dice there either.

I am EXTREMELY frustrated with Premiere. I've never really used it before, but was assured by Adobe Sales prior to purchasing it that it fully supported the 5D Mk II's output format. I can't do ANYTHING with it in Premiere. Considering what Premiere cost, I would have expected some functionality of some kind, but no dice.

Loading my video into a freeware app called VLC runs absolute circles around Premiere, which cannot even play the files without dropping five to ten frames for every frame played.

-Joe Chott

C

Catmandog

Participant

Yeah, Premiere is very disappointing in the way it handles (or doesn't handle) some files. Have you noticed that when attempting to play the original 5d2 files, premiere is hardly even using 30% of the total cpu usage but it's still choppy, and scrubbing through the timeline is almost buttery smooth? So it doesn't appear to be a cpu horsepower related issue, but rather the way premiere/quicktime interract with eachother.

S

Scotty_thomas

Participant

Has anyone talked about GPU assisted transcoding on this thread? I've been looking into Cuda supported apps and see that TMPGEnc 4.0 Xpress will use most of the current graphic cards to really push things along in the transcoding side of things. Also why does CS4 only support cuda acceleration on the quadro CX card? A cheaper games card has everything that is needed for help us all with these h.264 files, why won't Adobe make this tech more easily available so that people don't have to migrate over to Final Cut pro? I know I'm considering it..

A

Andy Urtu

Inspiring

Cineform has an fairly new product called NeoScene. It is only $125. It does a GREAT job with Canon 5D footage.

There is also a blog about the 5D and Cineform by the head tech guy at Cineform.

http://cineform.blogspot.com/

J

Joe Chott

Participant

As it turns out, Cineform Neo Scene doesn't actually work. It makes things worse.

If you already have choppy video when you import 5D Mk II .mov files, expect them to be two to three times worse when using Cineform Neo Scene.

-Joe Chott

C

charleshull

Participating Frequently

BrantG,

Yes, I've tried the method - it works fine. But I've found just rendering the clips is much easier. Usually CS4 doesn't want to render these MOV clips but if you add one transition this is enough to make it want to render everything, and then you are all set.

Bob_Dix_Photographer-E0Nmzu

Participating Frequently

Yes, well you are right, Premiere Pro 1.5.1 will run smoothly after rendering but, it is slow and needs a quad computer. Pity about CS4 it has the same problem and Adobe Melbourne tech says patch on the way ????????????????????????????????

This 1.5.1 even after five years old will produce very good high definition video on a Sony Bravia 46" but, the rendering is slow.

There is a minor issue with this camera running at 30fps for smooth running on the timeline but, can be reduced by reducing clip speed by 84%