Participating Frequently

Question

Issue with captions

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
July 8, 2021
6 replies
3741 views

The latest upgrade of Premiere has created issues with captions during export.

We produce a weekly 30-minute program for Bally Sports (formally FOX Sports Net) and is delivered as 720p file. Since the last update of Premiere the entire caption file (30 minutes in length) is reduced to around 16 minutes in length and we can't figure out why. We deliver the same program to other regionals as a 1920x1080 file without any issues.

This was never a problem prior to the latest update.

System specs:

Intel i&-8700K, 32 gigs of RAM, 2 500GB SSD's RAID 0, 500GB SSD Cache Disk, 500GB SSD Export Disk, Onboard audio, GTX 980Ti (Driver only, no Nvidia software) running a dual monitor setup.

Does anybody have a clue as to what is happening?

We have also reinstalled an older version....it knd of solved the problem and then again it did not.

Did a clean install of the latest Premiere viersion and still the issue persists.

We've been using Adobe since 2003 and we are quickly heading towards the end of the road as our editing software. We are tired of creating workarounds for a software bundle that on paper offers everything to anyone in the creative world, but often at times comes up short.

Performance

This topic has been closed for replies.

M

MMeguro

Adobe Employee

Do you happen to export a media in a different frame rate than the sequence, or change the sequence frame rate via the sequence settings? This could be an issue that got fixed in the Beta version so far (and gets pushed to the release version in near future). If you are interested, you can install via Creative Cloud app > Beta apps.

ahhunterAuthor

Participating Frequently

When we edit a "show" timeline it is always 1080p 29.97. However our exported file created for Bally is as a 720p with a framerate of 59.94. The scc file within it remains at a framerate of 29.97, this is a variable that cannot be changed. Where as this has never been a problem before, the current verison of Premiere is somehow handling the scc file differently during the encoding process. Is Premiere treating the caption file as a data file or have they changed the encoding process to treat it like another video file?

M

MMeguro

Adobe Employee

Under the new caption model, a sidecar file is treated as a data file whereas the old model treated it as a video file (this is why the old model placed captions in video tracks). Once a sidecar file is drag and dropped from the project panel onto timeline and captions are placed, captions in timeline becomes independent from a sidecar file. This is the reason why captions in timeline is not affected even if you remove a sidecar file from the project panel. The encoding process looks at captions in timeline, not a sidecar file in the project panel.

S

Spencer Clarke

Participant

It looks like nobody else has filed a bug report for this yet, so I thought I'd get the party started. I just spent the day pulling about half of my hair out over this issue.

https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro/suggestions/43784367-embedded-captions-are-way-out-of-sync-on-mxf-op1a

Stan Jones

Community Expert

Excellent. I upvoted and added a link to this thread.

Stan

videomichael

Participant

Hey Alan,

Hope you are well. We ran into same issue - actually the guys at AT&T SN in Denver noticed the issue on our latest episode. I hate when Premiere has these hidden bugs that are hard to track.

Anyway, I went ahead and installed 14.0, exported a prores version of the 30 minute show and layed by .SCC created by Vitac in sequence for re-export to MXF. Of course this is pain in ass because you have to use the old version of caption tool.

#ADOBE please fix this issue. It is major problem for TV delivery.

Thanks,

Mike Billingsley

Action Television

M

Michael Grenadier

Legend

is there any reason why you can't use the caption tool in 2021 and then bring the exported file into 2020 for the output?

actiontelevision

Participant

That is essentially what we did. However, having worked in the development team on several NLE projects, I can say that the goal when creating a new interface like the caption tool is for it to work through the entire process for broadcast professionals. We delivery programming to multiple networks and quite frankly, we never had the need to "check" the caption output to see if it is actually working like one would expect. SO this is a major bug for a development team who have made a significant upgrade to their Caption tool, because it does not work and we are advised to step back to a substandard tool that was the caption module in PP 14.#. If I were the product manager for Adobe PP, I'd be pushing for this fix daily. Just saying.

Stan Jones

Community Expert

You referred to a caption "file," so I assume you were exporting a sidecar.

There have been issues with embedded captions in the new workflow. I don't know the current status. But I don't think they were related to timecode/length of the captions in the embedded captions. It was more related to whether broadcast software recognized the captions.

Are you exporting mxf or mov (the only options for embed from PR in the old or new workflow)?

As a test, did you keep PR 14.9 installed (the last update of PR 2020 before the new caption workflow in PR 2021)? If not, you can install it along side PR 15.

Since you taking a file from SubtitleEdit and adding the finished video, you can just do that part in 14.9. This may be a better workaround for the moment, and will confirm that there is not some other problem unrelated to the PR 15 caption workflow change.

Stan

ahhunterAuthor

Participating Frequently

Hey Stan!

The issues we have been having are solely related to exporting at 720p (50.0 Mb/s, 1280x720 at 59.940 at 4:2:2 with enbedded captions with scc file.

What would happen the caption file speeds up about halfway through the program.

We have used both 14.9 and 15.2 versions with little success.

We have done a clean install of 15.0, not 15.2 and it seems to be working at this moment. For whatever reason exporting from 15.2 created this issue and using both 14.9 and 15.2 on the same computer did not work.

On a side not when we check the media with MediaInfo it does not show the Text Stream, although we see when we bring it back into a new timeline. Very strange.

Stan Jones

Community Expert

Thanks for reporting all the detail.

Yes, for some of the types, Media Info does not see the caption stream - even though it is present.

I don't recall any users reporting the "speeding up" issue, although I remember some kind of timecode issues, so I may be wrong.

Still curious as to whether these are MXF Op1a or Quicktime exports.

I don't understand 14.9 not working and 15.0 working. That may give the engineers a hint.

I would file a bug report where the engineers track such issues. They may or may not ask you for more info, but they will see the report:

https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro

Add a link to this thread.

Stan

M

Michael Grenadier

Legend

gotta say that I've worked in Avid, FCP1-7 and DaVinci Resolve over the years and Premiere is as stable and dependable as any of the other options I've worked with...

Alot of questions occur to me about your workflow.

Are you saying, you're exporting a captions only file (I think it's a .scc file) or this is a video file with the captions burned in? Is the sequence you're exporting 1080 or 720? You might try copying the contents of your sequence to a new 720 sequence. Haven't tried it, but any reason if you're exporting just a caption file, that the caption file exported from the 1080 sequence won't work? I've been working extensively with captions for a restoration of a documentary from the 80's. Started caption work in a uhd sequence at 24 fps and then moved over to a 1080 sequence at 23.976 fps without any issues exporting from either format. Gotta say that although captions have made my life a living hell, the problems do not seem to be in premiere, but dealing with getting a caption file into the authoring program.

Can you send me a project file with just a problematic sequence in it? I know the media will be offline, but I should be able to see if there's an issue with the caption export workflow. You can attach a link to the file to your replay or send me a message directly by clicking on my username at the top of my post.

M

Michael Grenadier

Legend

yeah not an scc but an srt file... And Stan's a reliable resource for these sorts of problems. He's been an enormous help to me on my ongoing project. And generally, I'm pretty good at troubleshooting and solving problems in Premiere.

ahhunterAuthor

Participating Frequently

Our captions are created through Subtitle Edit and then brought back into the timeline for each segment we produce. From there the segment in then exported with embedded captions to our show project. Each show averages about 8 - 12 segments.

Our workflow is as such;

- Field aqquisition is 4K

- Segment editing is 4K

- Export for show timeline is 1080 (w/captions)

- Show timeline is 1080 and then exported according to each networks requirements.

This has been our workflow since 2016, with no real issues until recently.

Stan Jones

Community Expert

So you are running the current release version of PR (15.2)?

What type of caption stream have you created? Subtitles (the old Open Captions)?

How (Text Panel vs Export Media) and in what format (srt?) are you exprting?

Stan

ahhunterAuthor

Participating Frequently

Hi Stan!

We had been running the current version (15.2) but overnight reverted back to 15.0. So far, we have created a wrok around by exporting our time, along with a sidecar file (scc) and then opening up a new timeline and that seems to work.

But its a work around and not a fix.

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