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Known Participant
July 25, 2022
Question

Looking for a clear, RECENT and step-by-step tutorial for 5.1 Surround mixing in Premiere Pro 2022.

  • July 25, 2022
  • 3 replies
  • 5411 views

Have done a bunch of Googling and looking all around.

Just trying to find a free step-by-step, clear and recent way to get started in 5.1 Surround sound mixing.

Adobe's help just spoke about Audition.

All the others are from 5+ years ago.

Does anyone have one or know of one?

Thank you.

This topic has been closed for replies.

3 replies

Legend
July 25, 2022

1. You'll probably want to figure out a way to get 5.0 output to 5 speakers (even if they are Logitech).  You almost certainly don't need the sub initially - figure out 5.0 first. (Or maybe even do 3.0/LRC first - you can then upmix the LR to 4.1 and leave the dialogue in the centre as-is - this is how quite a lot of 5.1 content is generated. No fancy pans that way, thankfully, plus it should be guaranteed to downmix to stereo without sounding terrible).

2. Create a 5.1 sequence. Master bus will be 5.1, source tracks can match your sources (i.e. standard / mono etc). Start with a standard track with tone.
3. Learn how to use the 'touch' setting of the track mixer to record fader movements and view/edit them on the timeline. Find out how annoying they are to edit / move / delete.

4. Now do the same with the 5.1 panner - the keyframes live under track keyframes front/rear, left/right, centre and LFE

 

Attached is a screen recording of same. Have a play around. (I think you'll get bored of the limitations pretty quickly.) 

Even though centre is muted the sound will appear to travel across the centre of the screen (look up phantom centre). 

Known Participant
July 25, 2022

Thank you for that reply! I downloaded your 5dot1 sample. Wanna know something? There was no sound at all! I played it directly from VLC at first. Then I dropped it into PrPro - there was no audio track 'attached' to it. Did I do something wrong? Thank you.

Legend
July 25, 2022

Oh there's no sound it's just a quick video guide. 

R Neil Haugen
Legend
July 25, 2022

"The other Neil" helping you is an incredible resource here, btw! As you have noticed. I can do color in way too deep for most people, "the other Neil" is a total audio brain.

 

I'll just add that you can do 5.1 in Audition, with the advantage of a fairly easy process to send to Audtion and get back into Premiere. One possibility.

 

And the Audition team is the entire sound team for the Adobe "DVA" section ... digital video/audio apps. The sound in PrPro and Ae is simply a simplified form of what happens in Audtion, so they all can work together.

 

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
Known Participant
July 25, 2022

Thanks for that great reply as well! I will have to check out Audition. That may be easier for my old brain (what's left of it.)

neil wilkes
Legend
July 25, 2022

Hiya.

Firstly, great to see yet another brave soul venture into the world of surround mixing. Sadly though there is no such guide that is worth the paper it took to plan it out, simply because there are no real 'how to mix in surround' tutorials in the manner I suspect you are looking for. What does exist are some superb technical recommendations I would striongly advise you to read. First up is the RPGA (Record Producers Guild of America) 5.1 guidelines.

This will give you the basics that are required to correctly set up, calibrate & utilize your mixing setup, as well as what some of the traps & pitfalls for the unwary exist. Then it will tell you how to handle the rendering of your mixes, and I really cannot think of enough good things to say about it - you need this book. We all need this book.

 

The other advice I would give you is frankly Do not mix for 5.1 using Premiere! Period. At all, except for valid reasons such as checking sync (although there are better ways) or - and this is the sole reason for me - unless you need to create an AC3 file for DVD or online use (although streamed surround can be a bugger, as you must always make compromises because of downmix issues). You mention that the tutorial for PPro is 5 years old - well, so is their audio engine (as a minimum, too) so no loss there - very little will have actually changed.

Use a DAW instead - Audition, Cubase, Nuendo, ProTools, Logic, Harrison MixBuss, Reaper - anything except PPro, because it's audio handling & panning in surround is not stable or solid, plus it simply isn't really designed to do this - it's an NLE. What I tend to do is bounce off an H264 mp4 file and use that in Nuendo as a sync reference. If you are worrying about audio tracks, then at the very least you can bounce each track off as a WAVE file (mono or stereo) out of PPro and rest assured things will not get out of sync at all.

Cubase/Nuendo will import AAF exports from PPro as well. 

If your DAW of choice cannot handle the multitrack archive format, then AATranslator is needed, and this is another tool I cannot really live without. It can convert just about any multitrack or audio platform project type into any other - I often get sent ProTools sessions and use this to make a Nuendo XML instead, and just import it. Works a treat, too.

 

The big problem with 5.1 mixing is that for music the main rules are basically as follows:

01 - Do not treat the LFE channel as a subwoofer. They are totally different things.

02 - Never mix on a sub/satellite system as you cannot get the bass correct

03 - Always have your 5 main channels full range from 40Hz to 20kHz as a minimum, ideally with the top end as high as 45kHz in order to deal with High Resolution content and it's pitfalls.

04 - Bandwidth limit your LFE to 80Hz with a slope of at least 36dB/Octave.

 

There are additional rules for film/TV mixing though, and these are also kinda important.

01 - The Centre Channel belongs to the dialogue.

This is so the resulting dialogue can be dubbed into a different language (so be careful with SFX, especially background Walla) with relative ease, otherwise it would require a lot more work to do.

02 - Music can be either 4.1/4.0 or stereo - again, if there is any dialogue over the music, avoid centre channel. If the timing works, you could use a 5.1 music track, but the odds are you will be upmixing from stereo if you want music in the rear channels. There is a good argument to be made that the score should only ever be in stereo but as with all these 'rules', they mean less than nothing in most cases.

03 - SFX/Walla can be used in all 4 channels but again, avoid using them in the Centre as it is reserved for the dialogue.

 

The one golden rule we all work to?

If it sounds right, then it is right.

 

What, exactly, would you like to know? I would need to know what experience you have in 5.1/surround, as well as what tools you have available. Let's get you happening!

Known Participant
July 25, 2022

Well, the first thing I have to say, is that in my 40+ years of computer work, video editing, etc. This is the most UNBELIEVABLY perfect reply I have EVER received in ANY forum I've EVER posted. For that, I thank you.

 

Long story short, I have been shooting and editing video literally since I was 10 in 1974. I'm 58 now. Although I am a very visual person (have done theatrical event lighting for that same amount of time,) audio isn't my forté.

 

I am working with a production company on an NDA project and want to learn how to do it. So to anwer your question, I am totally new to 5.1. Well, CREATING 5.1. I've lsitened to it many times watching movies, but that doesn't count. 

 

The tips you gave were outstadning (even if I don't understand them all.)

 

I do understand what you said about not mixing in Premiere. Unfortunately, I don't knowof any other "novice" 5.1 DAWs that would work for me, again, being 99.9% video editor.

 

Maybe I should have worded the original post slightly differently. I want to LEARN how to mix 5.1 - really just the basics for now until I get the hang of it.

 

We won't be doing any action scenes or anything that would require "bullets needing to sound like they're whizzing by your head".. At least not yet.

 

Also understood about tutorials not being worth the paper they're written on (or, pixels they're using.)

 

Just wanted something that would show the beginner how to "get it going". The tutorials I've seen, don't even have all the same dialog boxes or tabs or anything. Plus, they're from 5+ years ago, as I mentioned. I am really surprised there isn't something out there for Premiere 2022.

 

Thank you again for the reply. I will check out that DAW you mentioned just to see if it is something I can handle

 

Mike