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CFC737
Participant
January 30, 2020
Question

Premiere pro & A7iii Banding

  • January 30, 2020
  • 2 replies
  • 946 views

Hi all and thank you in advance,

 

so I did some light grading with my A7iii footage which was shot indoors, the footage even in the preview window appears to show colour banding in the shadows and some walls after the light grade was added. 

 

I put the issue down to the 8bit 4:2:0 that the A7iii shoots. Wondering is there a fix that I can do with a plug-in or effect? And changing the colour bit like in after effects seems to not be an option in premier. 

 

Appreciate any suggestions, thanks Daniel 🙂 

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2 replies

R Neil Haugen
Legend
January 30, 2020

Banding with 8 bit 4:2:0 is just waiting to happen. Sadly. You barely have enough levels to cover the visible black to white tonal range to begin with ... then the camera throws out half the color data to compress the media. That means that nearly any significant change of tonal ranges will show as banding in large areas of low tonal variance and low texture.

 

If that rig can record formats that are NOT long-GOP, like some form of All-Intra ... that would be a help for you right there. Recording in long-GOP format/codecs just exacerbates things.

 

That said ... after getting the media into Premiere ... first, very few LUTs are usable with media on the edge of banding. As colorists put it, LUTs are the dumbest math out there, and prone to crush darks, clip whites, and/or cause banding if the media isn't "perfectly" shot for that particular LUT. And by the time you've sorted out which "look" of a LUT you want to apply, I've already graded the shot and moved on.

 

Do very small adjustments for tonal changes with any one tool. Use several different tools in concert to make your total tonal change ... this will minimize both banding and induced artifacts. Not eliminate, necessarily, but ... should reduce the problems.

 

So say raise the Highlights slider in the Basic tab only a very few points. Do a micro adjustment with the RGB curves to raise the upper mids. Do a very slight up motion with the Color Wheels mids & highs luma sliders.

 

Do it the above way, rather than using any one tool to make the whole change of lifting the upper mids/highlights.

 

And the same with any color change ... use multiple tools in micro amounts.

 

Consider duplicating the clip up a track ... using Alt/drag. Then add a Lumetri layer on the upper track. Go into the Effects Control and set the Opacity Blending mode to Overlay or Softlight, maybe 20-30% opacity. Do some of your changes on this layer.

 

I used this to do a rescue grade on a drone shot with a bright cloudy sky and darkish, low-saturated landscape. And also for an office interview with a large window right behind the subject. I had to lift sections of his face, especially the eyes, and ... do something with the horrid blown out window behind him. He turned out pretty useful. The window ... the best that could be done was "Wow, that's not nearly so awful ... ".

 

Plus adding a touch of "grain" (sort of a film-grain form of dithering) ... from the Effects panel, type 'grain' and drag/drop Noise HLS. Set your program monitor to 100% to view grain as you're setting it ... start with Hue and Saturation at 0, Lightness at 20, Size at 1. Play with the Lightness and Size settings, then go back to full-screen image and play back a section. This can also help hide/mask banding.

 

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
CFC737
CFC737Author
Participant
January 30, 2020

Hi Neil,

 

Thanks for the many suggestions, speaking if the codecs and log, wonder would recording to something like the Ninja V which records to 10bit and 4:4:4. That being said I’m assuming that it would make some difference but nothing crazy as it’s still a 8bit sensor. 

 

The idea of layering and grading that way is something Iv never thought of doing before, maybe use for example one layer for my contrast and other for basic colour work. 

 

All ideas I have to look into for sure because it’s driving me crazy. Thanks again for the suggestions.

chrisw44157881
Inspiring
January 31, 2020

a7iii 's processor is not 10 bit. it outputs hdmi at 8 bit 4:2:0 too. the ninja will just record empty zero of data to pad. let if know if any complex overlays work. if you want a darker sky, you can sandwhich a normal with a multiply, with another normal without using any grading tools except the luma curve. play around and see if you get anything useful. you might have to mask the sky for neatvideo. resolve has a de-deband filter. I was going to reverse engineer it, but haven't had time. It's probably like neatvideo with smart blur or something.

chrisw44157881
Inspiring
January 30, 2020

sometimes neatvideo can reduce some banding as it supports a smart luma blur.

you can also try abstaining from luts and graded manually. then grading luma first, before using hue vs lum tools as its a lot easier on the pixels to align gamma globally. also, enable maximum bit depth if you're not grading to enable 32bpc color and stay away from 8 bit effects.

sometimes shooting with a pro-mist filter can help too.

CFC737
CFC737Author
Participant
January 30, 2020

Hi and thank you 🙂

 

I will neast my videos next time then grade and see if there is any noticeable difference, the 32bcp if I’m not correct is enabled though the render window when you enable maximum render bit depth, but that didn’t seem to do anything to make the banding better. 

 

Wonder is there away away to remove the banding even in the preview window.