To seek advice on editing a HDR File

Anilk....

Note that currently (October 2019) ONLY the specific AJA hardware bits I mentioned are usable at all for getting Premiere's HDR video signal out of the computer and onto an HDR monitor. NO Blackmagic hardware has had the firmware/software changes needed for the user to use the gear's software controls to select Premiere's HDR signal.

Again ... for the Macs, that is the AJA io4K or io4K+ external box.

For PC's, it's the AJA Kona4 or Kona5 PCIe cards.

And from either the external box or the PCIe card, you must use an HDMI cable from the box to the monitor.

Neil

Dear All. 

Thanks fort the feedback. Yes we woudl try to use the AJA or Blackmagic to get the details

Remember, in HDR work there are four ranges for tonal values, and you work with all of them. If you only work the Whites slider say in Basic, or the Luma (brightness) slider for the Whites color wheel, that only affects up to the lower edge of the Specular range. The Whites control sliders in Basic and Color Wheels tabs work the area between say the Mids and Speculars. Just as the Color Wheel's "Mids" Luma slider works the area between Shadows and Highlights/Whites.

So for the brightest values, you adjust those using the Speculars controls.

The RGB Curves tool as I've said works the entire range. The same top area that in the Basic and Color Wheels tabs  is controlled by the Speculars sliders can also be affected by the top of the RGB Curve tool. Any of the three controls, Basic tab's Specular slider, RGB Curve, or Color Wheels Specular slider, can work the top area of signal.

You've had some other odd perceptions that I'm going to discuss now.

Changing the Scopes color space or checking the Lumetri tab's "High Dynamic Range" setting do absolutely nothing to the original file. Premiere is a "non-destructive" NLE, meaning all changes you make are only applied to files you export out of the program ... never to the original media itself.

Period.

Premiere takes the media at import, notes from the media file the standards for that format/codec combination and any metadata in that file for the type of media, bit-depth, range, all of that information. Stores it in the internal project database. When you put the media on a sequence/timeline, it takes the original file information and displays it according to the changes you've made by the settings you've chosen and effects applied, processing in the background the data for the screen to show. Each and every time you play that sequence, it is recreating what you see based on the original media plus changes you have made in the sequence.

Within the sequence data is the ONLY place any information on the changes you made to the clips involved is stored. (Except for Master Clip settings, which are as noted applied to any use of any part of a clip anywhere in the project. They are a special case.)

Delete a sequence, all changes you made to the clips in that sequence are lost, as again, the only place those changes were stored were as metadata in the project file.

So changing the Scope color space setting ONLY sets the scopes to the appropriate color space for the media you are working. If it is SDR Rec.709 media, the Scope color space should be set to Rec.709. For HDR media, the Scope color space should be set to Rec.2020.

This then changes the scope to the appropriate range. Then set the drop-down for the Scope scales to the HDR setting, so the scales used on the scope are appropriate for the HDR media in a Rec.2020 color space.

For viewing the image, as I've said, completely ignore the "internal" monitors, Source, Reference, Program, and Mercury Transmit Out. ONLY view on the HDR monitor connected to the listed AJA gear, and after using the software controls in the AJA gear to select the Premiere HDR signal stream.

Once you're done working the project for any editing and effects, titles, color corrections, audio work, all of it ... then use the export options listed earlier to create your exported-out file to deliver for the client.

Neil

There are some things you don't yet understand about HDR work.

There are three "ranges" in SDR workflow, Shadows, Mids, and Highlights.

In an HDR workflow there is a fourth called Specular.

Think of the top white value essentially as a white piece of paper in sunlight. That is the top value adjusted by the Highlights/Whites controls.

Then think of sunlight reflecting off of chrome. That is the top Specular value.

Those are the ranges for working with HDR media no matter your application. And there isn't any need of turning Lumetri on or off, I don't know where you got that idea.

I've just given the gear and the steps to be able to properly view HDR media with Premiere, and how to setup color correction for HDR in Premiere, and how to export HDR in Premiere. It's a rather standard workflow once you have the monitor situation handled.

Neil

Niran,

Changing the scopes color space is done by right-clicking in the Scopes panel, then going through the Color Space option to select Rec.2020. Completely different than any setting in the Lumetri panel itself.

Which is part of the process of resetting Premiere for HDR work.

If you have the proper AJA gear to get the signal to an HDR monitor via HDMI between the AJA parts and monitor then you can set Premiere for HDR work.

Which involves what I said previously  ... set the scopes to the Rec.2020 space, set the scopes Scale option (little drop-down option lower right of Scopes panel) to HDR.

Then click the Lumetri tab, set it to High Dynamic Range.

Then set the Basic or Color Wheel tab Whites/Specular slider to probably around 203 nits, as that seems to be becoming the standard.

At that point the Scopes panel and your HDR monitor are both fully functional and get to work.

When done, and needing to export your deliverable, use the information I provided above for Formats, Codec, and settings.

Fully functional HDR. To be honest, if your "HDR" monitor isn't capable of 1,000 nits after calibration and running a profile to check it, well ... it's rather limited there.

There aren't many monitors that really support full HDR and with decent color. They tend to be very expensive yet.

Neil

Niran,

Exporting media out is of course very different from monitoring while working.

Using the AJA gear for your OS allows you to see your work on your HDR monitor.

And as also noted Premiere's scopes can be set for the Rec.2020 space and HDR scales.

The last data I'd provided was the four specific format/codec options for exporting your project to a final file or deliverable.

Neil

The Premiere signal out is full HDR. The engineers say internally it's sort of viewed as "over-range Rec.709" ... but it's full Rec.2020 HDR.

Here's a png file of the document with the four format/codec options to export full HDR out from Premiere. Three 10 bit, one 12 bit; three PQ, one HLG. You do need to follow the details pretty closely. And for most of them, you need to select say the basic format, then go down to the Video tab below and use the correct options.

For say H.264, you need to go down the Video tab to UNcheck "Profile", then select "High10". At that point, another option appears ... "Rec.2020 Primaries". Select that, and make sure the now-available "High Dynamic Range" option is checked. For Level, you need at least 5.1.

For H.265, uncheck the Profile option then check the High10 box. UNcheck Level, and again, select 5.1 or higher, along with Rec.2020 primaries and High Dynamic Range box.

For JPEG2000, select the format, then down below in the Video tab, "Chroma and Depth", select the "RGB 4444 12bit PQ" option. Then select "Rec.2020" for Color Primaries.

For the Sony XAVC-Intra, choose for Format, MXF OP1a, then down in the Video tab select one of the XAVC-Intra options out of the long list. Then down in the Video tab, check the Hybrid Log-Gamma box.

Neil

Oh ... the engineers are working on modding the code to allow full HDR viewing within Program and Transmit Out monitors but I've no clue when that may ship.

This is where doing posts and voting on posts in their UserVoice system can help give their bean counters the metrics that they seem to live by.

Neil

I've written about this in numerous posts here and LGG. I understand much of those have been posted or linked elsewhere. So actually the specific details are in many of my responses.

Premiere can work quite well clear up to the max HDR level of 10,000 nits. Not that any programming I've ever heard of has gone that high. The scopes function in perfect HDR mode when set to the Rec.2020 space, it's just currently the internal monitors  (Program and Transmit Out) are limited to SDR/100 nits.

Netflix and HBO have specified 203 nits as the pivot point between Whites and Specular, so that's become the general rule for working whether in DolbyVision or otherwise such as in Premiere.

Now, any usable HDR monitor for professional work is still above five grand USD, and needing another $1200 or more in external kit to connect to the monitor means HDR ain't cheap to do.

A friend is fully DolbyVision certified, and is the presenter in much of Dolby's on-site training material. The reference monitor he uses is something around $30,000, and is specified in both DolbyVision specs and the short list of acceptable reference monitors published by Netflix and others.

He's got a client monitor that is of course rather spendy also. Currently "rather spendy" being the operative term for doing actual HDR.

Neil

https://mixinglight.com/color-tutorial/demystifying-premiere-pros-color-management-and-finishing-pipeline/I have a free article and video on Mixinglight.com on basic setup of monitors and color management in Premiere.

There's a follow on about HDR, but it's behind the paywall.

Essentially Premiere is hardwired for Rec.709, the internal monitors cannot be used with HDR material. The Scopes work great when set for the Rec.2020 space and HDR scales.

You have to get Premiere's HDR signal out of the computer and to an HDR monitor,  and currently there is only a limited path to do this. They have published the "call" for their HDR signal but AJA is the only company that has changed firmware to "see" it.

For the Mac, you must have the AJA io4K or io4K+ external box.

For the PC, you must have either the Kona 4 or Kona 5 PCIe card in your computer.

From either kit, you must have an HDMI cable from the device to your HDR monitor.

Also, the Lumetri panel ... the 3-bar menu at the top, you need to click and select the HDR mode.

Then in the Basic tab or Color Wheel tab, you need to set the pivot point between "Whites" and "Specular" controls. Setting in either spot changes both.

And in the Curves panel  set the slider for the top point that you want the Hue/Sat curves to affect the signal. The top RGB curve affects the entire signal always.

Neil