what should the sequence settings be for an edit from a silent movie 15fps

Forum|Forum|3 years ago
January 28, 2023
12 replies
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So I'm working on a music video that will be visually all from a silent movie (in the public domain). The file I have is 15fps. Seems like youtube will accept and maintain the 15fps but wondering if there's any reason to drop the film into a 30 fps timeline? When I do that, it simply repeats every frame twice. with frame sampling chosen. That seems the best visual choice, rather than frame blending or optical flow. I have a feeling I'm overthinking this... At this point, I'm assuming that the main distribution will be youtube... but will check back with the record company... I'm guessing they might want to screen it as part of a performance or at a film festival... any issues there?

Thanks as always,

Michael

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Correct answer Michael Grenadier

create a new 1080 sequence at 30 fps and just drop the 15 fps file into the timeline which will repeat each frame twice, or just edit into a 15 fps timeline. The only reason to use a 30 fps sequence is if you're going to have to deliver a DCP (digital cinema package).. or publish somewhere that requires a more standard frame rate...

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YANNA26705213grl5

Inspiring

interesting question, Mike... I don't know anyone who has dealt with 15fps stuff so can't ask around. I would have done the same as you....drop it into 30fps and get 2 frames of the source etc...seems logical. who knows what youtube does when it gets stuff and converts to show 15fps stuff... I have no clue.

I recall watching the keystone cops on tv as a kid and how fast they ran around, which made it look funny.... but that was at 30fps on tv ...some charlie chaplin movies were shown on tv and looked normal , buster keaton, etc. hope you let us know what you find out cause it's fun to learn.

Ann Bens

Community Expert

15 fps.

On export use frameblending or optical flow.

Or export 15 frames and let Shutter Encoder handle the framerate.

M

Michael GrenadierAuthor

Legend

Ann, actually, no. Did a quick test, dropping the 15fps clip into a 30 fps sequence (exactly 30 fps. not 30p). The best results were with frame sampling, which just duplicated each frame. Optical flow created some strange artifacting, particularly on the cuts between title cards and moving image but also sometimes within the moving image particularly if there was some damage to the frame. Would probably need to go and individually address each problem frame... Frame blending didn't seem as clean as frame sampling when played back.. Now it's possible that that's a function of premiere's playback on a computer monitor...

YANNA26705213grl5, if I remember correctly, silent films were shot at 18 fps... early silent film cameras were actually handcranked so that varied... The film I'm working on was from 1920. 18 fps was chosen because that was the approximate minimum frame rate to give you "smooth" motion. And when sound came in, the frame rate whent to 24fps. early television in the US was 30 fps and then adjusted to 29.97 when they added color to the mix... and that's ignoring interlacing and PAL video's frame rate of 25fps. so the clean "conversion" of the frame rates was always complicated... And the keystone cops frame rate is up in the air, because they often "undercranked" when shooting so motion would be sped up when projected for comic effect. And that's ignoring the fact that the camera and projector both had "shutters" which actually made the frame duration 1/2 of that with black image inbetween each frame while the shutter closed and the film moved in the "gate." Digital video doesn't have that intermediate black frame between each frame of image... I guess I did learn something useful at filmschool.

For the time being, I'll just work natively at 15fps, and since 15fps seems to be handled by youtube without issue, we may be fine this way. If we need a file for projection at a festival or whatever, that's a whole other can of worms.

Just found this which is a great explanation of the difficulties in this...

http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2015/10/23/silent-frame-rates-and-dcp-a-guest-essay-by-nicola-mazzanti/

If and when I need to provide a file for digital projection, I'll hopefully be able to do a test at the venue... Since the finished piece will hopefully be under 5 minutes, shouldn't be an issue to make whatever adjustments are necessary.

Thanks as always guys. I was hoping for a definitive answer... But you can't always get you want...

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