Skip to main content
S
scubakidd
Known Participant
September 19, 2022
Question

Impropter import of Applle HDR video

  • September 19, 2022
  • 1 reply
  • 288 views

I imported 4k HDR video files from my IPhone 12 Pro Max and the beta converted these to Rec.709. I went to drop them on my HDR time line and theycame out as Rec.709. The video quality was terrible until I went back and Modified the clipt to interpret the footage as Rec.2100 HLG to match my time line. This brought the clip back to life. A previoius video I put out, where I did not notice this, looks poorer quality than on the original content and it already out so that I cannot change it. 

 

The IPhone is recording HDR video. Although I know Premier has had problems with video clips being treated at Rec.709 in the past this is wrong and for people looking to create HDR video which is now supported on YouTube and Facebook more and more people like me are putting out HDR content to deliver better quality. This was clearly a temporary hack to solve another problem. Please correct this and make people aware that it is up to the author to properly represent the timeline and not for Adobe to try to be preemptive and falsely modifying the content.

 

Rec.709 is an ancient standard (I think 1990). Since people are recording in HDR now on mobile devices and higher end cameras like my Sony A7Siii, using it requires us to introduce a LUT. This complicates the workflow and produces a poorer quality product. 

This topic has been closed for replies.

1 reply

R Neil Haugen
R Neil Haugen
Legend
September 20, 2022

That is quite rare that it applied Rec.709 to those clips "by itself". Premiere has been placing all iPhone media shot with HLG enabled on sequences as of the 2022 build series. I've not heard once of it applying Rec.709!

 

Prior to Pr2022, Premiere's underlying color system was built around hard-coded Rec.709 standards. Those completely disappeared in the 2022 series, and that has actually caught a lot of users who were not anticipating the change.Premiere is now what I call "color space agnostic" and works with either SDR or HDR as long as the HDR is in either HLG or PQ ... still no DolbyVision capabilities.

 

For instance, some log-encoded media is expected to be Rec.709, but all HDR media is log-encoded. So when Pr2022 began treating all log-encoded media as if it were intended to be HLG ... hybrid log gamma, right? .... well, that hosed a lot of projects until people learned how to manually set the CM controls for any log-media in their projects to override to Rec.709.

 

However, simply setting the CM controls in Premiere to recognize HLG or PQ media as such does not apply a LUT. So I've no clue why you would expect a LUT be necessary for HLG work. Unless of course, you are talking about normalization of the image, typically done either manually or via LUT. Which is separate from the color managment of the color space.

 

The vast majority of even pro produced media is still Rec.709. I work with and teach pro colorists, mostly based in Resolve. The majority have yet to be asked to provide an HDR deliverable ... but that will change over the next year I would expect. Some of the people I work with were some of the lead people in adopting DolbyVision and getting fully certified in that ... with the tremendous expenses that come with that, such as $20,000 plus monitors.

 

There are still very few screens that accurately can produce even up to 1,000 nits in all colors, and they're very spendy. Some not quite so spendy screens can do ok up through about 450-600 nits, and I'm among the many hoping that soon we do get a workable screen for grading HDR up to at least 800 nits.

 

And that doesn't "enhance the viewing experience" without the user being able to turn that off, and ... doesn't jack the brightness around to get to 'bright' scenes versus 'dark' scenes ... which is still very common in monitors.

 

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
S
scubakiddAuthor
Known Participant
September 21, 2022

Neil, I am going to have to argue with you on a number of points.

1. I am looking at the clip I imported and it the radio button says  Use Media Space from File: Rec.709. Below that I entered the Color Space override to Rec.2100 HLG. I simply imported the entore folder and this was what the beta came up with. The video looked like crap on the time line until I gave it the override. You seem to be telling me that I am making this up.

2. Regarding screens that can support 1000 nits. How many IPhones are there out there? count the screens. Even if it can't reach 1000 nits my Benq display is much brigheter and when converting these to Rec. 2100 HLG they are significantly brighter and sharper.

Most people on Social Media devices can handle the higher nits. All new Mac Book Pros support the full 1000 nits.

I have over 2000 subscribers on our YouTube channel now and they love the switch to HDR quality. YouTube and Facebook both support HDR. It takes them about a day to make the HDR version available.

 

3. Just because the vast major of media is Rec.709 does not mean it is not changing quickly. Also, your pro colorists may not even recognize that YouTube and Facebook support HDR quality video. Pro Colorists are not strategists and don't look at trends. I was a former CTO for IBM and the trend is there. The industry would not ahve developed HDR color standars if they thought there was not a need for it. 


All televisions sets built since 2021 are using the HDR color standards. Frankly you don't need 1000 nits.

Regardless, this is a bug with the Premier Pro 23.x beta. It should not import an HDR clip as Rec.709. It is wrong and it it distorts the clarity as the colors are not accurate and yes it is significantly less bright. Full stop.

I am looking at the import properties right now and it clearly states Rec.709 as the default color  space for the Apple HDR clip. This is a bug. If I could attach a screen shot to this I would.

R Neil Haugen
R Neil Haugen
Legend
September 21, 2022

1) "You seem to be telling me that I am making this up"

 

No clue where you get that from ... none at all. I did comment that this is very rare, but that's not at ALL equivalent to making it up. And this is rare, as the vast majority of issues here and on other forums has been Pr2022's propensity for mis-interpreting Rec709 intended log-encoded media as HLG.

 

The really rare issues like this at times are the hardest to sort out, because ... there isn't a lot of previous comments on this.

 

2) If you're a Mac geek, you may tend (like many I know) to rather over guesstimate the folks with Mac gear. I've looked at the numbers both in US and elswhere. Some places it's higher, others it's lower. I've not noted anyplace where that was the majority of screens or even close.

 

Do a lot of screens support higher nits than 100? Yes. In fact, I'd say the majority of screens right now are set to well over 100 nits. Which isn't to say that they handle HDR well if at all. One thing that many colorists note is that on so many consumer screens that are 'HDR capable' ... the HDR image is pretty crappy compared to a decent HDR screen.

 

And of course it is most common that the total brightness is 450 or under for any monitor. Many of the monitors that can go above that 'shift' brightness levels depending on overall scene content. This means that one scene on one monitor will appear very different than another, making grading for them rather difficult.

 

And near impossible if the monitor you are grading on shifts depending on current brightness. I've been through hours of discussions with many of the top techy colorists and monitor specialists, pages and pages of white papers and such, all discussing this issue. That's why so many colorists still feel that you need to put out the huge cost for a monitor that can give you 1,000 nits constant brightness no matter the scene level ... and don't shift the shadow tones.

 

Well ... I can't afford such a rig. So I'll be getting one with compromises, like most people do at this time.

 

Can a lot of users actually tell the difference in viewing? Well, realistically ... no. Can it make a big difference in your grade if the content shifts brightness? Oh ... Hades yes. Yea, that's a concern.

 

3) the colorists that pay me have been some of the leaders in HDR adoption ... incorrect assumption on your part. As in ... they were the crew hired by DolbyVision to do the in-house series of how to use Resolve in a Netflix or other b-cast/streaming compliant project. Robbie had the first 'boutique' colorist post facility fully certified by DolbyLabs on the east coast.

 

Several of the colorists have done a fair number of HDR deliverables. Most ... still haven't. And they work for major b-cast/streaming around the world.

 

Is it coming in pretty fast? Yep. Do you HAVE to do everything in HDR now? Nope.

 

Finally, yes you are correct that is an incorrect interpretation by Premiere on your file. Premiere is incorrectly interpreting a lot of media right now, as I've noted, because the new color handling/processing/management system isn't even half finished yet compared to what it will become. It's rather painful how slow this process has been going.

 

I would love to get one of those clips and see if I can replicate the behavior you're getting on my PC. As the entire 'triangulation' aspect is a huge one for troubleshooting. It provides useful data either way. If it shows the same on my computer, or it accurately 'see's this as HLG. Either data is useful.

 

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
Terms & ConditionsAccessibility statement
Using the community Terms of use Privacy Cookie preferences Do not sell or share my personal information ad choicesAdChoices