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Trevor.Dennis
Community Expert
Community Expert
January 5, 2019
Question

US Government Shutdown — Question

  • January 5, 2019
  • 9 replies
  • 7036 views

Can someone from the US tell me if people affected by the US Government shutdown get paid retrospectively when a budget is finally agreed, or do they lose that income completely?   What about things like health insurance?  Does that remain valid throughout the shutdown?  I'm not asking about who is to blame.  I'm just wondering how those workers are going to manage if it is as drawn out as they are saying today.

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    9 replies

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    February 12, 2019

    Let's talk about the future for a second. I just saw the Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez video, the one where she talks about campaign financing. It speaks for itself. There is hope for the world.

    Trevor.Dennis
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    February 13, 2019

    https://forums.adobe.com/people/D+Fosse  wrote

    Let's talk about the future for a second. I just saw the Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez video, the one where she talks about campaign financing. It speaks for itself. There is hope for the world.

    Dag, thanks for putting us on to that.  Having watched it now, I am not sure what to say.   It feels like the press have got bored with outing President Trump for profiting from his position.  I've read that when POTUS is away from the White House, the Secret Service book the entire floor that the President is staying on, and if this is a multistory hotel, I understand they also book the floors above and below.  When the hotels are owned by Trump, then that comes to serious money, but AOC has clarified this to be entirely legal. 

    I don't know enough about AOC to judge if she would make a good President herself, but she underlined how difficult that could be in her ethical standards speech.  With the staggering sum it costs to run for President, how would she finance a campaign without taking corporate dollars?

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    February 13, 2019

    Actually she's too young to run herself now. I think you need to be 39.

    But I have no doubt she could generate the same momentum Bernie Sanders did. We'll never know if Bernie could have beat Trump, but it's not entirely unthinkable.

    But that's OK. I'll be fine with Elizabeth Warren.

    jane-e
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    February 11, 2019

    Trevor.Dennis  wrote

    I'm just wondering how those workers are going to manage if it is as drawn out as they are saying today.

    Trevor, this article in today’s WaPo does a really good job of explaining the very real hardships of the government workers after the long shutdown. And there are so many others who work with the government who never got paid at all.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/devastated-by-one-shutdown-dreading-the-next/2019/02/10/5ec2afcc-2b06-11e9-b011-…

    The government may close again this Friday.

    ~ Jane

    Trevor.Dennis
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    February 12, 2019

    jane-e  I've been following the Post as we inch up to another possible shutdown.  One article that hit home was about a Government worker who has not recovered from the last shutdown, and is dreading it happening again saying she and her family will go under.  Sorry, I can't find it now.

    Call me shallow, but I did smile at the bit about the Non Sequitur comic strip in the Post today.  I think the author sneaked it past the newspapers  he is syndicated to, and apparently, they are not amused. 

    jane-e
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    February 12, 2019

    Trevor.Dennis  wrote

    Call me shallow, but I did smile at the bit about the Non Sequitur comic strip in the Post today.

    A lot of people have gone under already or will go under soon. And many who were expecting promised tax cuts find that instead they are paying several thousand more this year.

    Shallow? No, I would never use that word to describe you, Trevor. I didn’t catch the scribble on Sunday, but I totally agree with its sentiments, and am glad it got past so many copy editors.

    Here’s the follow-up article in WaPo and the entire comic as it appeared in the papers.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/02/11/cartoonist-hid-vulgar-anti-trump-message-his-comic-strip-th…

    joanH
    Inspiring
    January 26, 2019

    What if one of the genius tech leaders invented an infallible lie detector? Now there is something to hope for. Sharing my dream. JH

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 26, 2019

    Lie detectors only work when people know they're lying.

    Apropos of nothing, but just to give you Americans a bit of context. I was listening to a discussion on Norwegian radio the other day, with foreign correspondents and political journalists. The subject for the discussion was Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

    The point of interest that everybody picked up on, was that absolutely nothing of what she stands for would be considered controversial here. It's all consensus policies here, from the left to the reasonably moderate right, almost nobody disagrees and none of it is even under discussion. She'd fit right into the mainstream.

    Nancy Pelosi would be considered pretty much center of the Conservative Party here.

    So when you see us Europeans gasp at the news we're getting - that's the context. It's like watching the news from Mars.

    jane-e
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 26, 2019

    https://forums.adobe.com/people/D+Fosse  wrote

    So when you see us Europeans gasp at the news we're getting - that's the context. It's like watching the news from Mars.

    From here in the United States, it feels more like the Twilight Zone.

    JoshuaCorley
    Participant
    January 22, 2019

    We are not receiving any of our government tax returns, which has, in turn, affected the US economy for the worst. I am eager to see how this turns out and hope we can pull it together.

    jane-e
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 9, 2019

    Trevor.Dennis  wrote

    I'm not asking about who is to blame.  I'm just wondering how those workers are going to manage if it is as drawn out as they are saying today.

    Trevor,

    This Youtube video explains the shutdown best. It’s a must-see.

    Stephen Explains The Shutdown With Beer - YouTube

    ~ Jane

    Trevor.Dennis
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 9, 2019

    Thanks Jane.  I'll watch it when I am properly awake.   I watched both Trump's address and the Democrat response, and from a delivery point of view, and also content if you took then on face value, I thought Trump did a better job.  Certainly better than Nancy Pelosi.   And here lies the problem.  The Trump fan base will have taken it at face value, and as said back up the thread, they accept the content as fact even though they know that content fell somewhere between deception and down right lies.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/09/fact-checking-president-trumps-oval-office-address-immigration/?utm_t…

    The above link went soon after the address, and the Post has expanded its reporting on it since then.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/09/trumps-speech-was-full-lies-it-also-gives-democrats-an-opening/?utm_t…

    Hmmm...  I use an incognito window for my occasional forays into the Post, which just tripped me up, as I was not able to use the browser history to find the first link above.  Google came to the rescue though. 

    Nancy OShea
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 8, 2019

    Can someone from the US tell me if people affected by the US Government shutdown get paid retrospectively when a budget is finally agreed, or do they lose that income completely?   What about things like health insurance?

    It depends.

    Non-essential personnel are furloughed until called back to work.  Technically they don't get paid after the shutdown except at the discretion of Congress.   In the past Congress passed provisions to pay furloughed employees for time not worked  but nowhere is that etched in stone.   So we'll wait and see what happens.

    Essential personnel like TSA employees have to keep working during the shutdown but eventually they receive retroactive pay.  

    Health insurance is contracted annually so all gov't employees keep their health benefits for 1 year regardless.

    The real worry right now is that if the shutdown isn't resolved soon, millions of low-income Americans will stop receiving food stamps.  January is a cold month.   Faced with buying food or heating your home, what do you do?

    Trump can no more relate to these hardships than fly to the moon.

    Nancy O'Shea— Product User & Community Expert
    jane-e
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 9, 2019

    https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

    Essential personnel like TSA employees have to keep working during the shutdown but eventually they receive retroactive pay.  

    TSA employees have been calling in sick and security lines are growing.

    Airport Security Lines Grow Across The Nation As TSA Sickout Continues

    Nancy OShea
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 9, 2019

    Of course they're calling in sick.  This is flu season.

    Weekly US Map: Influenza Summary Update | CDC

    Nancy O'Shea— Product User & Community Expert
    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 8, 2019

    I'm just left with one question buzzing in my ears throughout all this.

    Why, exactly, is it a good idea to hand so much power over to a single individual?

    Legend
    January 8, 2019

    A bill passed the House this term that had passed the Senate last term with enough votes in both houses to override his threatened veto. The thing is, it would have to pass the Senate this term to be sent to his desk, and the Senate majority leader refuses to let it come back to the floor.

    The problem is that the President and GOP leaders are treating this like a game with "winners and losers," instead of looking at what is best for the whole country.

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 8, 2019

    Yes, but I meant in the broader picture. Why should a president - one person - have this power? Is it just that nobody saw this coming?

    The constitution here in Norway would never allow such a situation in the first place. If at one point the Democrats got majority in both chambers, would it be possible to sneak in some measures to prevent this from ever happening again?

    Or would, say, the Supreme Court nix it? (again, an unthinkable situation here).

    Peru Bob
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 5, 2019

    They have always been paid retroactively, so those who are not considered essential get extra vacation days, while others like law enforcement, continue to work without getting paid until the mess is fixed.

    Legend
    January 7, 2019

    https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peru+Bob  wrote

    They have always been paid retroactively, so those who are not considered essential get extra vacation days, while others like law enforcement, continue to work without getting paid until the mess is fixed.

    The furloughed employees of the government have always been paid retroactively in the past, but this requires a bill to pass both houses, and the president to sign it. There is no guarantee that this will happen this time around.

    Peru Bob
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 7, 2019

    It would be political suicide to vote against a bill like that.  Even if it were vetoed, there would be enough votes to overturn the veto.

    jane-e
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 5, 2019

    Trevor.Dennis  wrote

    I'm just wondering how those workers are going to manage if it is as drawn out as they are saying today.

    Hi Trevor,

    In the past, the people who work for the federal government have been paid in full and their health insurance remains in place. It is always uncertain, and they are always worried. They are more worried this round with an unstable POTUS at the helm.

    Here’s the answer to the question you didn’t ask.

    There are many people who lose income and will never be paid. That includes the people who work in restaurants because the feds aren’t going to work and aren’t eating out. It includes parking lot attendants. It includes a host of agencies who work with the federal government as contrators. There are more of these than you can imagine. It includes those of us who train in the D.C. area when the federal workers can’t take classes they have signed up and paid for. There are a lot of others in supportive jobs who will take a hit and many are living hand to mouth. All of the food trucks around The Mall where the Smithsonian is shuttered will lose business because the tourists aren’t there. The child care workers aren’t needed and don’t get paid. Taxi, Uber, and Lyft drivers will have fewer customers. And it goes on.

    They are saying this one will go on for months because POTUS has said he won’t back down. How many people have enough savings to last a couple of months with zero salary? From what I read, not many.

    ~ Jane

    Trevor.Dennis
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 5, 2019

    Well that's at least partially reassuring, but not completely without casualties.

    Speaking of casualties, the Washington Post carried a story yesterday about there being three deaths in NPs since the shutdown, which seemed just a bit flawed to me.  Sure enough, in the comments one reader looked up statistics that showed that about 300 people die in NPs in an average year (this is from memory — the article has 1500 comments now, and I am not about to trawl through them all) so the rate of deaths in the Parks is actually down.   It also sounds like the circumstances of the three fatalities last week, would not have lead to different outcomes if the Rangers had been at work.   Now if someone was unlucky enough to be attacked by a bear, because there were no Rangers to close that particular trail, that might be different.

    I've visited several NPs, and loved them all [1].  The Grand Canyon probably had the greatest impact, because pictures just can't prepare you for the reality of your first steps to the rim.  I'll try and remember the others, but it was a long time ago.  Yellowstone, Arches, Yosemite, Badlands, Bryce, Zion, Death Valley, Everglades [2], Grand Teton [3]  Joshua Tree, and Mesa Verde.  Goodness, that's more than I realised, but nothing eastern.

    [1]  A wee proviso for Monument Valley.  We arrived a bit too late to get a tour, and had to carry on driving so would have missed it, so we took off around it in the hire car.  To be honest, I did kind of now why several Navajo were shaking fists at us, but we pleaded ignorance, did our tour, and carried on driving.  The locals did not look the hapiest of people.

    [2]  I'm thinking of Noel who has just moved from Florida to Minnesota to work at the Adobe Arden Hills location.  I hope his family are still speaking to him!   So at the Everglades it very pleasant, and the tourists all had shorts and a T-shirt, but the locals had long trousers and sweatshirts.  I guess it comes down to what you are used to.

    [3] Being into fast bikes and a bit of a speed demon, I thought I could get down the Jackson Hole Alpine Slide without using the brakes.  I went over the side at goodness knows what speed and got a god-awful gravel rash that hurt like blazes for the rest of the holiday. 

    My disaster was thirty to forty years ago, before they'd invented tiny video cameras, so this is not me.

    John T Smith
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 5, 2019

    I'm way too old to risk my body on something like that... but when I go on the Symphony of the Seas later this year I may go on the 10 story slide tube

    Royal Caribbean Symphony of the Seas The Ultimate Abyss Photos - 29 Pictures