Hebrew fonts?

> But what I don't understand is why Adobe, a public nonsectarian company, should somehow as a "meaningful goodwill gesture ... help sponsor the creation of all these classic holy books using Adobe's software."

The end result would be a tangible testimony that the Adobe graphic art software accomplish a massive task of historical proportions. The Talmud is the most massive set of knowledge books, representing much of the body of Jewish wisdom that was ever created, containing more material than even Encyclopedia Britanica. According to Jewish tradition it is the Bible explained and a whole lot more.

>This would put Adobe in direct competition with some of its customers who do this for a living.

Nobody is currently using Adobe software to create a new edition of the Talmud. So, it is not harming any customers.

>Plus, we have a hard enough time just getting enough resources to get our software developed, tested, debugged, and supported.

This is a very poor explanation which degrades Adobe's own markleting literature.

(Maybe someday we'll actually be able to integrate InDesign ME's support of R-to-L languages into the mainline InDesign code and not have to have a separate edition whenever you want to use Ivrit for even part of a document!)

This is counter to any marketing sense, as no one would purchase an extra copy of the stand InDesign, but reduce to zero InDesign ME sales.

>And if we did all the classic Jewish holy books, why shouldn't be also do those for the Christians, Moslems, Buddhists, etc.? This really isn't Adobe's current business nor a business that we want to enter. That's what are customers are best at.

Not correct. First, there are different versions of accepted Koran text. Its size is not massive. Adil Awalli of Ready Set Go in London has a superior product for the Koran that makes InDesign look inferior.

Similarly, the Bible is a fraction in size of the Talmud, even including Hebrew Tanach, which Adobe customers are doing.

Therefore, only the Talmud is the choice subject for all different reasons.

Irwin,

Please step back for a moment and look at Dov's post from a purely business standpoint. Dov is correct. As nice as it might be for Adobe to provide the resources, it is simply not Adobe's place in the market, and it would compete directly with some of its customers.

Neil

the regular InDesign incorporated ME

a technician's fantasy only, but a very poor marketing decision, as is obvious to a knowledgeable business person.

btw, dov is a brilliantv person, but his logic in his arguments is weak. stay tuned for answers to his questions, one by one.

if afterward everybody would agree but Dov, it would look poorly on him, as his emotions ruled over better judgement. however, i believe it won't be the case.

But what I don't understand is why Adobe, a public nonsectarian company, should somehow as a "meaningful goodwill gesture ... help sponsor the creation of all these classic holy books suing Adobe's software." This would put Adobe in direct competition with some of its customers who do this for a living. Plus, we have a hard enough time just getting enough resources to get our software developed, tested, debugged, and supported. (Maybe someday we'll actually be able to integrate InDesign ME's support of R-to-L languages into the mainline InDesign code and not have to have a separate edition whenever you want to use Ivrit for even part of a document!) And if we did all the classic Jewish holy books, why shouldn't be also do those for the Christians, Moslems, Buddhists, etc.? This really isn't Adobe's current business nor a business that we want to enter. That's what are customers are best at.

Dov, before you jump to conclusions, allow me answer your every point well taken. After you acknowledge the conclusions, can you use your influence with Mr. Warnock?

>But what I don't understand is why Adobe, a public nonsectarian company, should somehow as a "meaningful goodwill gesture ... help sponsor the creation of all these classic holy books suing Adobe's software." This would put Adobe in direct competition with some of its customers who do this for a living. Plus, we have a hard enough time just getting enough resources to get our software developed, tested, debugged, and supported. (Maybe someday we'll actually be able to integrate InDesign ME's support of R-to-L languages into the mainline InDesign code and not have to have a separate edition whenever you want to use Ivrit for even part of a document!) And if we did all the classic Jewish holy books, why shouldn't be also do those for the Christians, Moslems, Buddhists, etc.? This really isn't Adobe's current business nor a business that we want to enter. That's what are customers are best at.

Dov of course (as always) is correct.

I personally would love it if the regular InDesign incorporated ME.

>Even Pierre, President and CEO of WinSoft in France, who made Adobe InDesign ME, said that Adobe should make a meaningful good will gesture and help sponsor the creation of all these classic holy books using Adobe's software and the exact replica of the original Vilna typeface to show the entire world that the Jewish Bible and Talmud can be perfectly recreated and printed, and made also into searchable PDF. Furthermore, he said he'd tell Mr. John Warnock, now the Chairman of Adobe directly to his face.
>Now, Raphael, isn't that the way it should be?

I think that now you can typeset all these holy books in InDesign. We are retypesetting the Koren Tanakh in InDesign with the help of Harbs add in scripts. Winsoft has done great work.

>The purpose of thickness is to draw attention that the thicker one is greater than the thinner. I think this is a wrong message to send. One is not more important than the other. Distinguish between them simply by color.

I guess that is an approach, but it's expensive to print in more than one colour. BTW if you want to quote me use the '>' before my text and it will indent.

>Shva na follows a simple rule that no one debate. Farkash is working on making the entire Tanach with shva nas.

er, no. There are different opinions about this. We're Jewish after all. Eg yevarechecha or yevarechcha.

>Now regarding komatz katan according to various views, this is no problem in software; only in print form.

yes it is. Is the first kamatz in tzohorayim a kamatz katan or a kamatz gadol According to sefardim it's a kamatz katan and ashkenazim say it's a kamatz gadol.

>How do you pay the team, by the hour?
off topic.

This is one of the most unusual discussions ever to grace the Adobe User-to-User Forums. I almost mistook this for mail-jewish! :-)

But what I don't understand is why Adobe, a public nonsectarian company, should somehow as a "meaningful goodwill gesture ... help sponsor the creation of all these classic holy books suing Adobe's software." This would put Adobe in direct competition with some of its customers who do this for a living. Plus, we have a hard enough time just getting enough resources to get our software developed, tested, debugged, and supported. (Maybe someday we'll actually be able to integrate InDesign ME's support of R-to-L languages into the mainline InDesign code and not have to have a separate edition whenever you want to use Ivrit for even part of a document!) And if we did all the classic Jewish holy books, why shouldn't be also do those for the Christians, Moslems, Buddhists, etc.? This really isn't Adobe's current business nor a business that we want to enter. That's what are customers are best at.

- Dov

The Guttman Vilna that came with Dagesh was of course Guttmans. There are other Vilnas out there which Guttman didnt create. I know that Kivun licensed Guttmans Toptype collection. Guttman also sold his fonts to Microsoft. However, if it doesnt say Guttman Vilna and just Vilna, then this isnt Guttmans and perhaps you have a very very old version of Dagesh before they licenced the Toptype library. However, things were a bit of a balagan at Accent/Kivun

I am referring to the ugly Vilna font used by every publisher in Israel or America, who make a Chumash, Shas etc, to save a few bucks in retypesetting G-d's holy books (how disgusting!)

Even Pierre, President and CEO of WinSoft in France, who made Adobe InDesign ME, said that Adobe should make a meaningful good will gesture and help sponsor the creation of all these classic holy books using Adobe's software and the exact replica of the original Vilna typeface to show the entire world that the Jewish Bible and Talmud can be perfectly recreated and printed, and made also into searchable PDF. Furthermore, he said he'd tell Mr. John Warnock, now the Chairman of Adobe directly to his face.

Now, Raphael, isn't that the way it should be?