Hebrew fonts?

However, our discussion was about the "correct" positioning of trop. Whether you agree that trop is secondary to nikud (according to the opinion of Koren and Narkiss) or whether you see that nikud and trop to be a unit which can be moved (according to the non-Jewish printers), is a matter of opinion. And of course there are other clever solutions like Harbs.

This is super fascinating.

It cause me to totally rethink everything. I looked at it before not from that view, but rather from the point of view of design. Now, I have to look at the whole subject this way of subdiving the issues into two approaches, with a third possibility which I assume contains the first two.

Artscroll popularised [Friedlander's Hadasa] with their version of Hadasa (Masterfont)

I don't believe you just said that. I thought ArtScroll it from Guttman; it was orignally on a mini-computer, which I didn't think Tzvika knew to support.

You won't like what I say now. If Masterfont created their version of Hadasa by desecrating the Sabbath, its a mitzvah to burn the results, and to rather use something that did not have Sabbath desecration. That's the halacha.

I could just see it now. A wild bunch of Satmar come from Williamsburg and ArtScroll to the ground. Goodbye, ArtScroll.

>To be an excellant typesetter, you do not need to "do" the subject matter you're typesetting.

I agree, however in the case of Hebrew fonts look at Microsoft. They have a version of Vilna with trop but you cant have trop after a chaf sofi with a kamatz. They built opentype tables which were just wrong because they dont understand how a Bible is typeset (never mind ktiv and kri).

I typeset stuff in Arabic which I dont understand, however, I think I would do a better job if I did since I would then know certain rules like you cant have "and" at the end of a line (or is it at the beginning, I forget), but since I dont recognise the word for "and" in Arabic, I ignore it. I think you will do a better job if you understand better what you do. Perhaps not the end of the world when typesetting instructions for some product in Arabic, but for some products, I think it is important.

I hardly think Bomberg did Daf Yom.

He likely could read Hebrew in the Bible, but he knew the real money is in the Shas, as our sages promise that riches are linked to the Talmud.

To be an excellant typesetter, you do not need to "do" the subject matter you're typesetting.

In fact, the earliest editions of Chumash and Rashi containing dumb mistakes of so called "learned" typesetter who corrected Rashi.

>I would say that probably Vilna is the most popular.

Yes in the States. However, in Israel, Koren is by far the most popular typeface based on the number of illegal renditions of it :-)

Seriously Koren is regarding in Israel as being the most accurate and the most beautiful Bible. Academics dont like certain things in it (they prefer Breuer), but the religious establishment loves it which is why in Bnei Brak they will only buy our Tanakh but wont touch our treif siddur (it has the prayer for the state of Israel in it)

I dont think that there is any doubt that Henri Friedlander was one of the greatest type designers of our time. I typeset the new Singers Siddur (the Siddur of the UK) in a version of Hadasa (Fontbits) and the fact that Artscroll popularised it with their verison of Hadasa (Masterfont) shows what an amazing typeface it is and only points to the genius of Friedlander.

However, our discussion was about the "correct" positioning of trop. Whether you agree that trop is secondary to nikud (according to the opinion of Koren and Narkiss) or whether you see that nikud and trop to be a unit which can be moved (according to the non-Jewish printers), is a matter of opinion. And of course there are other clever solutions like Harbs. Personally I have always like Korens which I guess is why I accepted a position here recently, but whatever system you follow, we all accept (I hope) that the shva should sit under the foot of the resh and dalet (and not in the middle) and that the trop should not overlap the nikud. This is a programming challenge and this can either be solved by moving the diacritics, either manually or by a script (my system) or by programming the font (ultimately the best, but most expensive way).

I would say that probably Vilna is the most popular.

I have a future at go.hebrew at gmail dot com

:)

(yes a little free marketing here :-) )

OK, you have a sense of humor.

Hey, you didn't read what Raphael wrote.

Raphael: Shhh

I did not bring up Hadasa, you did.

I brought up Hadasa, because we were speaking about Koren a"h and your neighbor Narkiss. I reasoned that it we mention great type designers as these two gentlemen, we should also mention an even greater type designer like Friedlander...and that eventually led to Hudson, who was greatly influenced professionally not by Koren not by Narkis but by his true favorie, Friedlander.

If I was Narkiss' neighbor, I would visit him, and suck his brain for everything he knew about fine Hebrew type design.

>So you are saying Kivun bought their Vilna from Guttman. I thought he was much better than that. You just caused my high regard for him to be lowered. My Vilna is an exact replica of Mr. Romm's based upon an ancient manuscript. Kivun or Guttman's Vilna is just another modern version. And the modern publishers, like Oz V'Hadar. Mr. Romm is likely turning over in his grave.

The Guttman Vilna that came with Dagesh was of course Guttmans. There are other Vilnas out there which Guttman didnt create. I know that Kivun licensed Guttmans Toptype collection. Guttman also sold his fonts to Microsoft. However, if it doesnt say Guttman Vilna and just Vilna, then this isnt Guttmans and perhaps you have a very very old version of Dagesh before they licenced the Toptype library. However, things were a bit of a balagan at Accent/Kivun