Joke...

Was so hoping to see a joke at Jive's expense here, come to find out-- this forum is the joke, and it's at our expense.  @#$%!

And +1 to PJ above too.

Would the person who removed my comment from this thread kindly tell my *why* that action was taken?  My comments were pretty neutral and were not a "rant".

So tell me WHY some people arbitrarily remove comments?

I also forgot to mention that I am now getting the 404 error when trying to use the workaround for going to the last post, not only in Explorer (Win), but also in Firefox (Mac) and Safari (Win).

I forgot to mention that I have read some completely unfounded insulting personal comments that I have found really disgusting. Like suggesting that Hopper should spend more time helping in the products forums than here, or that Ramón was not really quiting these forums for he would soon reappear under a new identity. (I'm citing from memory so the words may not be the same, but the ideas were clear enough). Hopper has been for years a most helpful participant, and Ramón has always posted under his own true name, and anyone who thinks otherwise is very ill informed.

There is a special forum where some people may enjoy reading such comments, but they should be completely out of place here. Or should I say "they used to be" instead?

I have just logged in after about a couple of weeks, just to check if the joke is still on us. I think it is.

1. Although I notice some cosmetic changes, none of the major problems has been solved.

2. I see we now have new moderators who do not seem to understand what old frequent users still around are complaining about, and who do not seem to care if the number of faithful collaborators continues decreasing. Deleting and censoring posts, or closing threads, is not the best way to retain those still posting, or encouraging those who have left to come back.

3. I explained in here http://forums.adobe.com/message/2105030#2105030 why I was abandoning the forums. This is part of what I wrote:

So, then, what has been my battle, why did I fight it for so long, and why am I surrendering now? Well, I stumbled upon the forums in Spanish almost by accident, probably in late 2003 or early 2004, and was horrified by the mixture in their fixed text of a very few phrases in more or less correct Spanish, too many in horrible Spanglish, and high number directly in English. I was also very worried by the extremely low number of participants. So, being a born mill treader (sorry if I invented this expression), I have been struggling all these years to correct both things.

I was very successful in the early beginnings, when with a very willing and efficient JC,  we changed a not negligible amount of the fixed text to a more decent Spanish (my own) without telling anyone. Sadly, this process ended with the takeover of the Spanish forums by "Adobe Fenwick", a hit of a name we owe to you. Then came this shadow committee that never worked (and I think never existed) from which I was vetoed after several months, and then... nothing, nothing at all for months that turned to years.

Until the present debacle. As I explained above, we ended with "all the cats in the same bag" (please give me a hand with this idiom, Ramón), and with an impossible labyrinth for newcomers to pass through to get into this one and only Spanish forum.

I am aware that the same thing happened at least in the forums in French (by the way, Pierre shows no recent activity whatsoever), and I know that, with the recently implemented new forums (I wonder if anyone foresaw what a chaos this was going to turn into), there were at first much more pressing matters than worrying about this mouse that never roared. And when the magnitude of the chaos could be more accurately gauged, such a small matter must have been dropped.

So why am I surrendering? Simply because, even with my inherited optimism, I cannot see the slightest hope of any positive change in the forum in Spanish until the forums in English work as they should. And, even in my more optimistic moods, I cannot foresee any effective measures to achieve the later and therefore none at all of achieving the former.

Waiting four years for some improvement when there was a very slight glimmer of hope is one thing; waiting another four years when there is none at all is quite a different matter. In any case, I will miss you all, and very much, although I am not locking the doors for ever. Coming back several times per month, at least to the "Discussions..." forum, will be unavoidable; I'm simply not the type to discard an old love as an old shoe.

I'm sad to see there have been no further posts in that thread.

4. However, I think the most cruel joke by far is this:

Speaking of funny, the forum listing shows 20 replies, yet I only see seven; does that mean 13 posts have been removed? Wow!

Agreed!  I have been in Europe for about 3 weeks with a horrible internet connection.  Consequently, I didn't even try to connect.

So, I hoped that upon my return home SOMETHING would have been improved/fixed/upgraded.  Alas, nothing that I see has changed.  I have also yet to see a single request from the beta period get implemented.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised that more of the old timers haven't left, or that they (read: those of you still hanging round complaining, and trying to help fix things here??) still post as much as you do.

I'm no fairweather friend...I stuck with this place through previous rough patches, and was glad and proud for having done so.

But it's become clear to me that there has been a MAJOR shift in the trickle down attitude at Adobe...from products, to service and right down to these forums, and the faithful have been shat upon. We, who provided feedback from the trenches, who read every post in every forum we frequented, we who have helped countless numbers of our peers, we were the people that built up such a tremendous amount of goodwill.

It's ALL gone.

I have to wonder what it is that keeps you (Buko, Kath, Jay Jhabrix, Joslin, Milbut, to name just a very few) coming back, and why you continue to beat your heads against the wall? Big among the complaints is the lack of feedback, and progress. Adobe no longer gives a fraction of a crap about any of us. All they care about are numbers. Why give them any help? THEY DON'T CARE HOW WE FEEL!

I'll still pop in, and make a rare post, but Adobe—and I mean everyone responsible for this mess—is going to have to show me a MAJOR shift back to the core ideals for me to become a regular participant again.

Me and my yardstick, we have better things to measure these days.

[edited for content]

Message was edited by: Jochem van Dieten

Like Buko and David said, the standard of questions and answers – at least in the Photoshop group of forums – is appalling.

Adobe has really become a joke.

And those forums seem to be dying.

For all general purposes I've really cut back on helping. I see lots of bad help and newbie question mostly from shear laziness of not reading the manuals. I'm going to let the blind lead the blind for a while. Soon it will get out that the Adobe forum is a Joke now and that the caliber of help that you could get is no longer available.