Participant

Question

Quark and Corel make a comeback

Forum|Forum|12 years ago
May 8, 2013
9 replies
25113 views

Having purchased and used Adobe products in our creative agencies for almost 20 years, I cannot emphasize how incensed the CC only model makes me. Yes, I know that CS6 is still available, but I guarantee that once the storm over CC has settled that too will go the way of the dinosaur - call me cynical but I have a feeling it has only been retained temporarily to provide the forum staff something to quote in an attempt to appease the rightly infuriated masses.

The creative cloud software and delivery system is buggy and glitchy - just check the other Adobe forums - we cannot have 'downtime' where our software does not or will not function due to logins / incessant updates / accessibility.

The cost for 'leasing' access to the Adobe software is considerably higher in the long run - $X per month forever and never own anything, rather than $X as a one time cost of ownership and a reduced cost upgrade path.

You can guarantee that the price will increase once 'box' versions are no longer available / updated / supported and the masses have been forced to convert. Especially as the longest 'pre-pay' term is currently only 12 months.

Many people do not need all access to all of Adobe's software applications, which is why they offered various versions of the Creative Suite in the first place.

We do not need cloud services, we work with massive files, have multiple backups - and have remote file access where necessary - the last thing we need is CC monopolizing our available bandwidth.

In other words, we will not go the way of the cloud.

Adobe have always made great software, but the CC business model may yet bite back. At one point in time QuarkXpress was No.1 and all but unassailable - and then due to reknowned poor service and an overwhelmingly arrogant attitude to its customers they suffered huge market share losses to InDesign.

History repeating?

This topic has been closed for replies.

Axiom DeSigns

Participating Frequently

After caving in and subscribing to CS6 I thought it wouldn't be too bad having access to "state of the art" Adobe offerings.

Then came CC and though I was a bit excited for more 64bit goodness, it ended there.

The CC versions are glitchy, inaccurate, and features I used regularly were removed sequentially from each app with each update.
Dreamweaver CC, Bridge CC, discontinuation of Fireworks, four Edge apps for cookie cutter designing (which don't even come close to Dreamweaver's capabilities)

But thankfully, Aptana was a good free replacement though - albiet no "live preview" but hey Dreamweaver CC wsiwyg wasn't too great anyway, so whatev's.

No consistency between interfaces, no ability to change font or icon sizing (for all apps - "some" doesn't count - and only "acommodates" retina, not "any size"), removal after removal of features, and tighter and tighter integration into cloud based privacy invading "features" that have nothing to do with production work flows

Photoshop does video? What? Lightroom can't be shared - and does video? What?
Bridge can't do exports? Illustrator STILL only has 220" max document sizes?

Illustrator STILL has no document recovery?

Ai CC crashes so much that it would have been nice to not have to start over - and the weak reply from Staff and FanBoys of manual or auto save every few minutes - no really?

I'm stupid and never thought of that, but it kills your undo's and do you only make a document change every two minutes?
When you're flying through a design "on a roll" you can make dozens of changes in two minutes and "BOOP" crash at 1:58.

So it turns out "bleeding edge" software offerings is stupid. So Okay, I'll wait a month and THEN update.. but wait, why am I paying monthly again?

Oh right, it's for the "benefit" of constantly new software. But now the onus is on me to check the forums for issues and problems with every update right? But I have to wait a month for other poor subscribers to be our live production - and yet - beta testers. Harsh.

So...
Aptana is a great replacement for dreamweaver gurus who require php and asp and mysql and and and and - but don't require wysiwyg

oh wait, it's free and uses 1/5th of the resources.

Turns out windows Explorer (or the Finder) work as well as Bridge CC does, and actually the built in OS has more features.

Lightroom 4.4 I may keep since it's still offered as a box product with a standard license.

Does anyone really even understand just what the hell like a million apps of "edge" is for?"
Chripes, make it all one app already - oh wait, you did, dreamweaver, but uh, Okay.

Ps, AI, are getting replaced with Corel, I'm just working through the learning curve. (i like that i can customize the interface on any resolution monitor - and it uses native windows protocols that adobe in other threads says it simply cannot do?) - and document sizes are "unlimited" - it renders significantly faster than Ai, and PS.
Did I mention you can own it?

and Indesign? Yup, working with Quark 10 now and it's pretty nifty. Does everything I need - just have to verify if it can do data importing.

Did I mention you can own it?

Count the days Adobe, after 20 years or being an Adobe slave, and knuckling under your consistent removal of everything I need to have a smooth workflow, my purchase and rental of your garbage is numbered.

I'm sick of paying more for less, getting buggy updates, being held hostage by a softwware company, and getting more and more features of fluff that have nothing to do with core quality and efficiency. It's bizare that you soak resources to reinvent the wheels you already have instead of making them better, faster...

Adobe,

You used to be so very awesome. You essentially killed your competition.
Then you became jerks to everyone, and now you're at the as*hole level.

And guess what?
Your competition lives, and is gaining market share - and me.
So good luck with Edge, and FrankenShop.

I so very badly want a refund. But thanks to your new model - I have nothing to refund.
I wish I could run my business like that - but then again, if I did?
I'd have no clients.

Xeon64

Known Participant

Microsoft thought they were too big to fail as well. Look at them now. Scrambling to stay alive in the personal consumer market place. Do not even try to work with Text in Photoshop CC. It is so buggy it will have your tearing your hairout and these bugs have been there Since CS6.

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MyCoalescence

Participating Frequently

Ive been using adobe for 10 years. Im a few months from my BFA in graphic design. I have never owned adobe but always used at the school. With their student licensing I was going to get all I need in a few months which you can use for commercial use but...then when I came back to school a few months ago they had CC (crazy cloud) on some computers. I was thinking wait, didnt they just make cs 6 like, counting my fingers less than a year ago... YEP. CC at best should be cs 6.5! In the chaos ive been asking every professional and teacher I know about what they think of cc. The news is not good. Turns out students dont want to pay per month even when at student prices.

The last few weeks ive been looking for any alternatives to adobe. The first few things I heard of cc sounded nice, but that was a sugar coating. When I blew that off I went from worried, to horrified to wanting to start a strike. I had such high hopes for adobe but as my economics classes tought me they have become a lazy monopolist. They start charring more, producing less, being less efficient and charging more to convince the public with add its just fine. So I looked long and hard for an adobe replacement. As you all know there is no one replacement to adobe, they are top in 2d, 3d, video, audio and web development. I took hard looks at 2 companies that offer solutions to some of adobes programs.

Did i mention you can buy them as cds with perpetual licencing. I looked at several top 10 alterantives to graphic design programs. I saw 2 componies come up again and again and again. Serif and Corel. Many of adobe competators are doing massive discounts and pushing their products own faster since cc.

Serif is a Euro company. It has versions of illustrator, photo shop, muse, indesign, and a few other but those are what im interested in. They have several things going for them besides cds and licencing. Unlike most you can free download with out a credit card a lite version of their previous versions. I downloaded and tested vs adobe cs 6 and cs 2. They were very similar to cs2 but its free with no trial time, you keep it for ever. The full version is probably closer to cs 3 or 4. Not bad considering most their programs are 70-100$. So for the price of just dreamweaver I can get programs that fill the bare needs. Overall decent but id consider them high end hobby or low end profesional.

Corel is canadian and doing well. They are like the borg but on a smaller budget than microsoft. They absorb many small->medium good companies like winzip. I was blown away when i saw that. Im not a corel user but studied enough about them I have a good idea. They have an awsome business model now. You have the 3 options you need. Buy cd + license for a flat fee and free cloud, or same + premium cloud for 100/year, or just subscription cloud based for 200/year. Yes I said 200$/year and that is for the whole corel draw suite! Ok let me break that down more. Their standard buisiness model still exists and they say they are not changing that in the forseeable future but you get a small free cloud for a few more free features, no big deal. The standard + premium cloud is 100/year and you automatically get the newest edition update by update and when it comes out and have more fonts and a few other things. The thing is they generally put out new versions every 2 years so thats 100x2=200$ which is the exact same cost as upgradeing version to version. So inessence you pay exactly the same but have "cc" benefits and no down sides. The last option of just cloud subsctiption is much like adobe cc. You pay 200/year and get the upgrades and bonus stuff but no large single payment but no licensing. I think they are testing the waters to see what customers really want. So here is an examples, say you are with corel for 4 years right after their newest version. I will break down the different ways to pay.

Say you just want the newest version ever 2 editions like with adobe. Pay 500 for drawsuite x6 and then 500 again for drawsuite x8 =1000

Say you want to get every edition. Pay 500 for x6 then 200 (40%) for x7 and 200 (40%) for x8 =900

Say you want to get every edition and premium cloud. Pay 500 for x6 and 100/year X 6 =600 so 500+600=1100

Say you want just subscription. Pay 200/year X 6= 1200

So which you do depends on will you stay with corel for 3 editions or not. If less do the subsciption and if more do the standard + premium cloud. They gave you options and flexability, corel wins. The only thing they dont have is rent to own.

Coreldraw vs illustrator. For the most part they both get the same things done. They both have some nice unique features but as some stated adobe got more into flashy than making you work faster. Overal the few things corel does not do are not needed. Corel is simpler, more intuitive, user friendly and more customizable.

Photoshop vs paint-shop. Photoshop has no equivilent in photo editing. Corels is inbetween photoshop and photoshop elements. May just have to live with a 70% photoshop with corel.

Web creator vs muse. They do just about the same thing but I have more trust in corel.

Overall the more I read about corel the more im likeing it. Im giving adobe 6 months to change from forcing CC and if not my new home will be corel. Sorry adobe you did the same thing as xbox one or forcing us online and not letting us have cd and corel is doing samething as playstation and picking up the pieces of that catastrophe.

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omega-man

Participant

I upgraded Quark 6.5 to version 9 a year ago in anticipation of where a Adobe was headed, as a backup. You can upgrade any version of Quark from version 3 onwards for a limited time for sum of $279.20… and version 10… all new from the ground up is just around the corner!

http://shop.quark.com/pa/p-6-quarkxpress-9-pacific-asia-and-africa-edition.aspx

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Mitch1987

Participant

Can anyone tell me... is the new QuarkXP supported by the Macbook Pro "retina display"? Anyone know?

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omega-man

Participant

System requirements here: http://forums.quark.com/t/21811.aspx

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Anonymous

THE COREL TEST

STEP 1: COLOR MANAGEMENT in Parallels Win7 on Mac

So maybe Corel-Suite is an option.

Therefore I have to know if my Mac color management will work in Parallels Desktop with Windows 7.

Dual screen in fullscreen mode is also a requirement.

And guess what?

IT WORKS LIKE A CHARM

after 15 minutes of trying.

My hardware calibrated NEC LCD2690 shows exactly the same perfect print colors in Win7 and OS X simultaneously in fullscreen and coherence mode.

full size: http://s1.directupload.net/images/130516/glpkjvmj.jpg

Ready for

Step 2: Testing if Corel can establish a professional print publishing workflow.

Maybe in two to three weeks I will test that :-)

Silvercat22

Participating Frequently

I've been an Adobe customer since the 1980's and I have been upgrading every year or two since then.

But I refuse to work with the Cloud... and the latest announcement re offering future updates to Creative Suite only via the Cloud/subscription model has got me considering jumping ship... Adobe has me backed into a corner, so I'm seriously considering going back to Quark XPress and/or other alternatives.

Adobe seems to disregard loyal customer's workflow and buying habits, and, in recent years has had TERRIBLE customer service.

It feels like a business case sorta like JC Penney... looks like they might learn the hard way. I sure hope it doesn't come to that.

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DeadDead13

Participating Frequently

Have been eyeing the Corel site many times since this Adobe nonsense. Looks like CorelDRAW Graphics Suite X6 might be my new friend.

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ChicoCDM

Participating Frequently

I've been a loyal customer since CS3 Master Collection and have upgraded every year. Adobe said mater of fact "change is painful." Let me tell you how disgusted I am with Adobe. I can't even stand the sight of their name and logo right now. I never thought I would hate a software company but I am thoroughly disgusted with Adobe. I am willing to buy substandard software than rent Adobe software.

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WBoswell

Inspiring

I always liked Corel's graphics suite. I would have stayed with it, but I had to move to Adobe products for college since they were the industry standard. I have upgraded all the software I use to CS6 and don't intend to upgrade after this because I figure perpetual software is on its way out. The only Adobe software I would continue to upgrade is Acrobat. Switching to CC is not an option for me because I don't profit from Adobe software and I'm not paying for software I don't own. The same goes for Microsoft Office. I'm still using the 2007 version and I plan to stay with it until it no longer works.

Phillip M Jones

Inspiring

Check with MS. there model is different than Adobe's. You may have to pay more but for the forseeable future you can still get Office as a DVD or Download. And unlike Adobe Office365 is $99 per year not Month. That includes Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Outlook. If I were you I would upgrade to 2013 that way you can go many years to come without the Rubber wearing of the tires.

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Chris Exum

Participating Frequently

Philip - I agree with your point about $99/year. While that would be more than what I typically pay for my Adobe Tax (usually upgrade about every 2 years, so arount $50/year I think), it would still be reasonable. $240 per year for my Adobe Tax just doesn't seem worthwhile - and it's almost 5 times what I've been paying in the past.

Xeon64

Known Participant

Funny I just check to see of Corel and Quark are still around. Thank You Adobe for making me look at your former rivals who will soon be gaining market share again thanks to the CC. Anyone know a good replacement for Photoshop?

Phillip M Jones

Inspiring

If you’re a PC user. ADC (formerly Deneba Software makes something) Corel Probably does but Mac is limited.

OldBob1957

Inspiring

Phillip Jones wrote:
but Mac is limited.

Not really. Mac has many options for running Windows software. Head over to the Corel forums (for just one example) and see how many users are running that "Windows only" software on Mac systems. And quite successfully too. The software for doing so has come a long way in a few years.

--OB

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DeadDead13

Participating Frequently

You can already imagine what the future with this subscription only Adobe Creative Cloud aka The Adobe Price Gouging Smoke Screen has to offer: It goes like this. Adobe updates programs with a few new features (some totally useless) then decides these features warrant them raising the monthly fees by $5-10 every update cycle. Adobe has not guaranteed a maximum subscription fee limit it will charge on future updates in writing. It has only said $49.99/month in online quotes. Where is the guarantee in writing that this price will not increase?

Phillip M Jones

Inspiring

But that is only for the first year its an introductory offer plus its doesn't say what that is for whether its for one or two items, or every creative suit application that exist.

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becusaAuthor

Participant

If we don't make a noise, Adobe won't hear it.

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