What About Moderators in the New Forum?

David,

It doesn't take an IQ above room temperature levelin degrees Celsius to spot the fallacy in your feebly twisted post.

> "David Blatner is an expert in Photoshop and has earned the respect of others. He might not use the title when posting the Photoshop forum, but he is an Adobe Community Expert".

That is exactly my point. I was referring to "to people calling themselves Adobe Community Experts" . [ EDIT: you even quote me verbatim in your post.] David Blatner does NOT call himself that in any of the Adobe forums I frequent.

David Powers, I don't know you from a hot rock, and seeing the "ACE" label next to your name would not change that one iota. I would judge not you but your posts. So far, I am not impressed. Add the ACE badge to your name and that would make it only humorous to me.

Ramon, you have a very short-term memory. This is what you wrote:

> it's particularly galling to see people calling themselves Adobe Community Experts when they clearly have next to zero expertise on genuine Adobe products. Perhaps they should be called CEFMPBA, "Community Expert on Former Macromedia Products Bought by Adobe".

As you have acknowledged yourself, David Blatner
i is
an expert in Photoshop and has earned the respect of others. He might not use the title when posting the Photoshop forum, but he
i is
an Adobe Community Expert. Your comments are offensive to him and Community Experts with similar expertise in other products. Adobe has decided that it wants to display that title alongside their names in the new forum. That's all there is to it. It's Adobe's decision; not one demanded by "intruders".

By the way, your attempt to discriminate between original Adobe products and former Macromedia ones is childish. Adobe acquired Macromedia for a huge sum of money because Macromedia had technology that Adobe desperately wanted. Regardless of their heritage, all products that bear the Adobe logo are now "genuine" Adobe products.

As for whether my comments about the difficulties of the last attempt to integrate the forums are "horse manure", I doubt whether you're in a position to judge unless you were personally involved in handling the technical side of things. I wasn't, but I have been briefed on the situation by people who were.

Ozpeter has posted a very thoughtful comment about the implications of the proposed new forums here:
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b8142c
It's well worth reading. You might not like what he says, but I think he sums up the situation pretty well.

Newsreaders are fine for some but there are quite a few webby things that can't be done with them.

OK, this horse is now pronounced dead.

" I can only say that as a long-time user of FreeHand and Dreamweaver, I found their forums clunky and lacking in answers to my questions, and I soon gave up on them."
-----------
Which is why the majority of responses to the questions from the DW web-forum came through via posters using NNTP. An answer was always given within minutes (if not seconds). But you wouldn't know this if you used on the web interface.

No-one has suggested that the MM web forum was great - we all know it wasn't, it was slow and sluggish. This is the reason for the use of NNTP by all the regular posters - but this only brings us back full cirlce, so won't go there again.

------------------
"On the other hand, Photoshop, Camera Raw, and InDesign forums are not only easier to navigate but produce rapid answers sometimes within minutes of a question being posted. "
------------------
Answers on the DW forum are also given within a reasonable time - that is if you use NNTP to view the forum. Often times answers from the NNTP side never made it to the web -forums, maybe that's what happened when you asked your questions. I seriously doubt that your questions would have been unanswered.

------------
"And the forums are regularly contributed to by real experts, from Thomas Knoll downwards, who don't seem to feel the need to flaunt any titles'
------------
Here we go again with 'titles'. Its the Adobe users that keep bringing this up. Show me one post where a MM member has said that they wouldn't participate in the new forums without a 'title' beside their name.

The superior attitude of some of the Adobe users posting here is beyond belief.

It is inevitable that the MM people resent the attitude of Adobe users. I can only say that as a long-time user of FreeHand and Dreamweaver, I found their forums clunky and lacking in answers to my questions, and I soon gave up on them. On the other hand, Photoshop, Camera Raw, and InDesign forums are not only easier to navigate but produce rapid answers sometimes within minutes of a question being posted.

And the forums are regularly contributed to by real experts, from Thomas Knoll downwards, who don't seem to feel the need to flaunt any titles.

In my view the beauty of the current forum design is that you can quickly scan for topics that interest you without a lot of unnecessary information cluttering up the screen. It easy shows topics that have new posts since your last visit and doesnt require you to wade through multiple pages as you review the latest action in any particular forum.

One of the problems I have with the proposed change is that there is so much unnecessary information on the subject page that only a small number of posts are visible on the first page. In many cases if the topic has moved off the first page most people will not bother to click on subsequent pages and that topic will die prematurely.

The current layout is unique in a forum culture that seems to think that avatars, signatures, number of posts, when the user joined, special expert labels, points for right answers, etc. are of any use or interest. This unnecessary additional information just takes up space and adds to information overload. You shouldnt do something just because you can. The example shown of how the new forums are going to look is a good example of this much to much unneeded and useless information that leaves almost no screen room left for the meat of the post. Instead of the professional looking layout we currently have Adobe seems to want to target the look toward preteens.

If as DorothyK suggests we should all just get over it, get in line, and accept our medicine then this current forum section is unnecessary. Hopefully Adobe will consider some of the concerns expressed here if not, just tell us and well stop wasting our time.

BTW - The idea of identifying community experts is absurd I dont care if you think you have earned the title or not. Already the tone of some of the self-identified experts in this tread alone is evidence of why it should not be allowed can you say God Complex.

ANN Wrote:

"You apparently do not visit the Photoshop Forums too frequently or you might recognise that the very people who are most vocally challenging the appalling decisions that the Forum Development Team seem determined to foist on us, are the same people who offer their help, and answer questions, in the Adobe Photoshop Forums on a daily basis"

and are acting like spoiled brats with no thought to anyone else but themselves.

What about the members from the MM side? Haven't they also spent years offering their help, answering questions on a daily basis in the Dreamweaver, Fireworks forums? Don't they also deserve some respect and have the right to be involved in any decision making regarding the new forums?

>Perhaps you would like to tell David Blatner,

Thank you for mentioning him. That reinforces the thrust of my statements. I've seen posts by David Blatner in the Photoshop forum. He's never displayed or hinted at the "Adobe Community Expert" badge. He's earned his reputation and does not need the crutch. His posts are recognized as authoritative without the need of a badge.

>the reason the previous attempt at upgrading the systems went so badly wrong was the desire to preserve a lot of the customization.

That is horse manure. Nothing was preserved during that ultimately aborted changeover. Nothing.

>there are many Community Experts who represent Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator, Acrobat, and other programs from the original Adobe lineup.

I've never seen anybody representing himself or herself as such in the Adobe Photoshop Macintosh forum or the Adobe Camera Raw forum in the more than five years I've bee a regular there. Adobe staff who contribute are now identified as Adobe Photoshop programmers or engineers.