Log color workflow - master clip LUT's to adjustment layer causing issues

Question

Hello,

I'm working with ARRI LOG footage with intention sending the footage to a colorist to apply color adjustments. I'm not finishing in Premiere. I've been working with an input LUT applied as a master clip effect to each clip to give me rough idea of what the footage will look like. Ive gone about cutting and adding various effects and transitions and some compositing, both in Premiere and AE.

I'm now preparing the footage for the colorist, and finishing VFX work. I want to deliver a flattened LOG Quicktime. To get there I have disabled the input LUTs that were applied as master clips effects, and applied the same input LUT to an adjustment layer over all the footage, as a top layer in my sequence. I'm doing this so I can make my entire sequence, footage and the effects applied, translated into the flat LOG color.

The contrast and color curves added by the LUT on the adjustment layer is now messing with the effects. Which I anticipated, but I'm finding it pretty hard to correct. In particular cross dissolves, or any layering of color solids with opacity changes, especially if blending modes are set to something other than "normal". Screen or Add modes behave very differently with a LUT over them. Its not always easy to fix it either. Its rarely just an issue of increasing the opacity by 20% or something. And it seems that sometimes in fixing it, reducing the contrast etc, it I also introducing artifacts, like banding and noise, into the image.

The same holds true in After Effects, but it is a bit easier to fix there. My experience is AE compositing algorithms are usually much better the PPRO. But its still a pain there too. I've tried adding input LUTs that do REC709 to LOG to the graphics and solids, but it doesn't really work. Maybe i'm not using the right input LUTS though? The LUTS I'm using on the camera footage is the "Alexa Default LOG to REC 709" and the "Alexa V3 K1S1 LOG to VIDEO DCIP3 EE"

Is there a strategy you would recommend for how to go about translating the effects work done in premiere (and AE for that matter) to LOG? I'm really hoping its not true that if you are going to apply any effects or dissolves etc to LOG footage in Premiere, you have to finish it in premiere. But I also cant imagine how else the master clips would work.

An example to reiterate the problem: Take some LOG footage, apply a input lut to it. Place a white color matte on top of the footage, make the white matte in "Add" mode, and create a ramp from 0-100 opacity. View result. Now disable the input LUT on the clip, and place it on an adjustment layer above both the clip and the white color matte. It will look different. How do you fix it so that a colorist down the line can apply a LUT to the clip and it looks as it should?

Another issue, when rendering the preview within premiere with the LUT applied on the adjustment layer, it looks different than when I export it. Same settings for preview/sequence setting and export (ProRes 4444)

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you!

benb70691813 · Accepted Answer

Any colorist worth working with wants to be consulted as early *in the editing process* as possible. *Your* choices for doing time ramps, scaling, and a number of other effects can add hours to the conform process on their end. This can blow either your cost (billed per hour) or their ability to pay bills on the job (quoted price) right out the window.

There are certain ways to handle such in PrPro that make life easy in Resolve or whatever program they use. Some ways make the conform a longer, harrowing process.

Having a major project that is from the beginning assumed to be going to a colorist without prior experience with that colorist just show up is seen as a clear sign of a lack of professional experience if not a total disrespect for a fellow professional.

When my colorist friends talk about getting projects from editors with no prior experience delivering to *their* shop, who just want to "dump" a project on them, they aren't reticent about comments on working with noob editors.

Scathing comments.

I have no understanding why any professional is unwilling to work appropriately and respectfully with other professionals. You surely aren't saving money on the grading this way.

Neil

Bruh, if I had a colorist to speak to, and if were a seasoned professional having navigated this workflow for the 50th time, I surely wouldn't be asking these questions on an Adobe forum. Relax.

For anyone else trying to navigate this topic, over at creative cow I've gotten more answers: LOG color workflow with effects in PPRO : Adobe Premiere Pro

The workflow I'm basically following is detailed here: The VFX behind "Äkta människor" (Real Humans) // GeneralSpecialist

Which is summarized here:

Import ProRes4444 with default settings (no color management, no ‘Preserve RGB’ or anything.)
Create Adj. layer with “Apply LUT” and choose “LogC2Video” LUT created in Arri’s LUT Generator, to match the on-set look of Rec 709.
Set the LUT Adj. layer on top of every comp, and set it to a Guide layer so it doesn’t render.
Any RGB sources get a “Apply LUT” with a “Video2LogC” LUT applied to them.
Comp in 32 bpc and view everything with the “LogC2Video” LUT.
Render out to ProRes4444 at 32bpc. Since the “LogC2Video” LUT is a Guide layer, you just “Add to Render Queue” and hit Render.

Yes, absolutely, talk to the colorist first. If you can.

Roei Tzoref · Answer

Here's a relevant tutorial for managing color in After effectshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHY5rMnBUz8

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