Missing fonts

[garyr93739538]

This ridiculous system has lost my most-used font Berthold Akzidenz Grotesk. I cannot find it in the font library. Anyone know how to find it? Is this designed to make creativity more difficult????

[Abambo · Accepted solution]

The font is not part of the subscription. See here for more information: https://community.adobe.com/t5/adobe-fonts-discussions/berthold-fonts-unavailable/td-p/10182409

(the links are broken, however, because they are still from the old forum, and did not transfer gracefully to this forum)

[garyr93739538]

Sorry but this is appalling service from Adobe. Please direct me to a place I can get Berthold AG so I can continue design projects created in Indesign 22. Ridiculous creative conundrum.
Gary Rowland MARCA

Sent from my iPhone

[Abambo]

If they were never part of the https://fonts.adobe.com offering, you can barely complain here. Whatever you did to lose the font is not in relation to Adobe.

[Bobby Henderson · Accepted solution]

Berthold "BE" fonts have not been bundled into Adobe's applications in a really long time (I got a copy of the AG "BE" family with Illustrator 4.0 and Photoshop 2.5 for Windows; the installers and fonts came on some 1.44MB floppy discs). Those were Postscript Type 1 fonts. Adobe recently ended support for Postscript fonts across all applications.

There are font conversion applications that can turn old T1 fonts into OTFs, but there may be licensing issues with taking such steps. The other alternative is buying a new, updated copy of Akzidenz-Grotesk, which is pretty expensive if one buys an entire family (the 42 font Akzidenz Grotesk Next family runs $1100). 

[garyr93739538]

Thanks Bobby. I have the fonts and can use them in InDesign 2022 - but not going forward. It is really pathetic that Adobe have caused this problem for designers who rely on Adobe software to provide our creative services! I have found the missing fonts online, but not sure this will satisfy the greedy accountants at Adobe!

[garyr93739538]

[Moderator removed an offending sentence.]

[Imaginerie · Accepted solution]

Adobe distributes font from from foundries. If a foundry decides to stop having their fonts distributed by Adobe, they can take them out any time they want. The same way a product can stop being sold at a specific supermarket. I don't think Akzidenz Grotesk have ever been part of either typekit or Adobe font though. You need to buy it separately at fonts.com or use Monotype's own subscription service.
Adobe has nothing to do with it, and likely will not address your query
https://www.bertholdtypes.com/
and
https://www.myfonts.com/collections/akzidenz-grotesk-font-berthold?tab=familyPackages&queryId=07b560...

I had to buy Akzidenz Grotesk, and like you, I wish it was included in my CC subscription. But I'm not in the board of directors at Belthold (Do they get bonuses? 🙂 ) so that's what it is...

[Bobby Henderson · Accepted solution]

I've never seen any Berthold fonts included in Typekit/Adobe Fonts in the entire time Adobe has been offering the service to CC customers. Adobe hasn't had a deal with Berthold since the mid 1990's. To complicate matters, the Berthold fonts that were bundled with Adobe applications a long time a ago had the "BE" suffix applied to their names. The ones Berthold would sell direct to the public often had the "BQ" suffix applied to their names.

Other type foundries have participated in the Adobe Fonts service only temporarily. Font Bureau is a good example. Font Bureau decided to remove the fonts they distribute from Adobe Fonts. The funny thing is Font Bureau itself has to make deals with individual type designers to distribute fonts they create. So while Font Bureau removed the catalog of fonts it was offering to Adobe Fonts, some of the individual designers whose fonts were affected made deals direct with Adobe. The Interstate type family by Tobias Frere-Jones is one example of a type family that got pulled from Adobe Fonts only to return under a different foundry banner.

Anyway, the point is Adobe doesn't have dominion over the commercial fonts industry. They can't arbitrarily include just any of the countless thousands of commercial type families that exist. In the past, if they did include certain fonts in a retail software box those fonts would only be around for maybe a couple version cycles. When Berthold's fonts were no longer included in newer versions of Adobe Illustrator we got a different fonts bundle package with faces from outfits like the Image Club (some of the ICG fonts were knock-off clones of other typefaces). Most versions of Creative Suite software boxes included hardly any fonts. I don't remember getting any fonts in the Master Collection 5.5 box. When Typekit, aka Adobe Fonts, came along I was pretty amazed, even though the limits to the service were pretty obvious from the outset.  

[Imaginerie]

Yes exactly, I don't know why people expect everything to be available on Adobe Fonts. And while I am immensely grateful for Adobe Fonts (really, I love you Adobe fonts 🙂 ) . I still buy fonts on a smi regular basis, because I know that I will need them until I die 🙂
There are pretty awesome foundries nowadays who offer some superb packages (special shoot out to Pangram Pangram and Latinotype!)
Akzidenz grotesk is actually one such font I had to buy (for clarification I didn't buy all the variations, I don't have that kind of money) as it's:
- beautiful
- extremely versatile
- and I found out that lots of my clients use it, and it just makes things simpler.

If it was cheaper, I would have bought the whole shebang, but as someone who tries to make fonts - at a very low level - and given the aboslute insane amount of work that goes into it, I cannot really complain.

[Bobby Henderson]

Yep. Despite the existence of Adobe Fonts and other open-source sites like Google Fonts, I still spend a pretty good amount of money on commercial fonts. To lessen the financial sting I try to grab note-worthy type families when they're first introduced. Usually the font files are available to buy at deep discounts. I've bought some font packages for as much as 90% off the retail price. There have been a few instances where I've bought a newly released type family only to see it pop up on Adobe Fonts later. New Haas Unica is one example, at least I spent only $100 on it rather than the $460 full price. I'd be surprised if certain best-selling type families wound up on Adobe Fonts anytime soon. Helvetica Now is one example (the variable version is extremely useful). Akzidenz-Grotesk might be the best selling typeface from Berthold. I would also be surprised to see it appear on Adobe Fonts. OTOH, the Adobe Fonts service has a lot of other very popular type families available to sync.

[Abambo]

Yep. Despite the existence of Adobe Fonts and other open-source sites like Google Fonts, I still spend a pretty good amount of money on commercial fonts.

By @Bobby Henderson

Being able to offer a design using fonts that not everyone uses is an advantage. Despite the hundreds of fonts offered by Adobe. Fonts are rarely the main cost factor in a design.

[garyr93739538]

Dear All,

thanks for the support and info.

The point is that I have bought all the fonts I need over the past 40 years.

Adobe has become the software provider for which I subscribe, but my fonts no longer work so that my design output is compromised. I do not have the time to deal with this problem and cannot expect my clients to pay for it.

Outrageous, corporate monopoly from Adobe.

I have bought the fonts AGAIN so hopefully I can be creative and totally beholden to our American fathers.

Adios amigos.

[Bobby Henderson]

The point is that I have bought all the fonts I need over the past 40 years.

Most people who are actively creating graphic designs on a commercial basis aren't ever going to be done buying fonts as long as they continue working in this industry. New typefaces continue to be introduced. Some old typefaces get visual and technological facelifts (such as Helvetica Now, Futura Now, Albertus Nova, etc). Many style trends with type have come and gone. Typefaces get attached to those trends.

Look how Gotham exploded onto the design scene in the 2000's. Now I'm getting sick of seeing this typeface (and I spent a good chunk of money buying a license of it). It has proliferated both legally and illegally. It has become over-used. I really hate seeing Gotham artificially squeezed and stretched on things like outdoor signs. I dislike artificial squeezing and stretching of typefaces in general, but it's really terrible when done to a carefully balanced, geometric sans face like Gotham. But so many "designers" out there simply don't care. They're hammering out garbage layouts as fast as they can and moving on to the next project. Unfortunately they don't care if the garbage design work they did stands next to a road side for 10 or more years.

Even when type is used properly people get sick of seeing the same old thing. That's why we need new typefaces and new trends in design.

[malagasmith]

exactly.  adobe design software has changed the way they handle fonts we purchased way back, even their own font bundles. I have logo files going back 20 years that are no longer editable. it's bull. they took the easy way out with CC, instead of a customer centric approach. If they have nothing to do with fonts from other foundries, as these posters are saying, then why don't they stay out of it and allow us to choose fonts we've already installed on our system, and which have worked this way all these years? When I purchased my licenses, I was purchasing the use of those fonts forever. 

[Abambo]

exactly.  adobe design software has changed the way they handle fonts we purchased way back, even their own font bundles. I have logo files going back 20 years that are no longer editable. it's bull. they took the easy way out with CC, instead of a customer centric approach. If they have nothing to do with fonts from other foundries, as these posters are saying, then why don't they stay out of it and allow us to choose fonts we've already installed on our system, and which have worked this way all these years? When I purchased my licenses, I was purchasing the use of those fonts forever. 

By @malagasmith

You still can use all of your fonts. The only "issue" is that Adobe stopped support of Type1 fonts in their latest versions of the software. If you still have older versions installed, theuy are still able to work with Type1 fonts. 

Even if the license is perpetual, the support in the latest applications isn't. Alone the testing of the font support for each new version was eating up resources, and it may well be, that some OS releated support to Type1 was fading, and that Adobe needed to emulate those functionality. 

The conclusion is: if you use newer software, your old fonts may not be supported anymore, but that does not necessarily mean that you are not allowed to use those files anymore. 

I have exchanged all my old fonts with new ones, because of the fading support. 

(BTW: I still have a CP/M operating system, with Wordstar and dBase and other nice programs, on a perpetual licence. And I have a CC+ development system from Borland for Windows 3.1 that I still could use on 3.1, if I could read the 3.5" disks. We all have perpetual licences and at sone point, technology changes, and you need to take decisions.)

[garyr93739538]

The only important “issue” is that our creative output is being commercialised and compromised by these software giants.
It is inexcusable and downright insulting.

[Lumigraphics]

"The only important “issue” is that our creative output is being commercialised"

Either you are a hobbyist and not buying fonts or selling your work, or you are doing commercial work and selling it and thus, have to buy raw materials like any other business.

[Abambo]

"The only important “issue” is that our creative output is being commercialised"

Either you are a hobbyist and not buying fonts or selling your work, or you are doing commercial work and selling it and thus, have to buy raw materials like any other business.

By @Lumigraphics

And like any company, you write off the costs. The costs for Type1 fonts should have actually already been amortised ten times.

[malagasmith]

this is more like when you sell your design to the client and give them a perpetucal license to use your design than it is a truck that has a limited life.  if your customer now asks you for that logo file are you going to charge them more because you now need to pay for the rights to use the font you included in their logo? of course not. and neither should adobe do that to us.

[Lumigraphics]

If the client needs that branding, they can buy the font.

[Abambo]

The only important “issue” is that our creative output is being commercialised and compromised by these software giants.It is inexcusable and downright insulting.
By @garyr93739538

You don't understand the issue. To support technology after 20 years of end of life is unsustainable. If your software is bugging because of this, you will blame Adobe with the same fervor. If you are an Apple user, you are used of old software that gets rendered unusable, because the support in the new OS gets dropped. Windows also does this, but at a slower pace. It is, however, unavoidable that old technology gets pased out.

[Abambo]

It is really pathetic that Adobe have caused this problem for designers who rely on Adobe software to provide our creative services! I have found the missing fonts online, but not sure this will satisfy the greedy accountants at Adobe!

By @garyr93739538

Adobe recently discontinued support for Type 1 Fonts technology, after discontinuing distribution of Type1 fonts twenty years earlier. For computer technology, that's a long time. Each new version of the software would need extensive testing, and this for supporting a technology that is no more evolving. You should have switched your fonts to OTF by now, and you should have done that the moment you got notice about the phasing out of the Type 1 technology.

There are always 2 options with this:

1. Switching to an alternative font, if you can work that out with your customers.
2. Buying the respective OTF fonts, if (1) is not possible.

You had time to prepare that.  You even still have time to prepare that as long as the software you're using supports the font, and you are not forced to upgrade.

I have thousands of Type 1 fonts that are now obsolete. They had a long live and survived around 5 computer generations. That's not bad.