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October 18, 2017
Question

In Adobe Media Encoder is there a way to match the source frame rate if it isn't in the list?

  • October 18, 2017
  • 1 reply
  • 16162 views

On rendering with Adobe Media Encoder, from an After Effects project which uses a 20.0 fps frame rate (there are other videos from the client that also use non-standard frame rates that I colud have chosen), Media Encoder with "Match Source" selected puts the frame rate at 23.976 fps instead of 20.0 fps (the actual source frame rate). Note: I am rendering to the H264 codec.

1) Why does Adobe Media Encoder not match the source frame rate in this case? It says "values may be constrained by the output format" but as far as I know, there is nothing about the H264 codec that limits it to just what Media Encoder has in it's very limited list box of 12 frame rates. Note. 20.0 fps isn't in the list box. Nor are other frame rates which I have also wanted to use. What if I want to use any frame rate from eg. 5.0 fps to 120.0 fps for outputting with H264? Note: The original source video the client sent is AVC (same as H264) High@L3.1, 20.0 fps.

2) Is there any way to make Media Encoder use the correct frame rate for this project (20.0 fps) instead of 23.976 (which will surely lower the quality).

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    1 reply

    W
    Community Expert
    Warren Heaton10841144Community Expert
    Community Expert
    October 19, 2017

    No, there is not a way to match a frame rate that is not in the list.  You can only pick from the ones that appear in the pop-up menu.

    If you happen to be running macOS, you can render to QuickTime Photo-JPEG at best at pretty much any frame rate you want (including 20 fps).  Then, open that file in QuickTime Player X and export to 1080p (or any of the other sizes like 720p and down).  The resulting file will be H264 at 20fps.  You can change the .mov extension to .mp4 as well.

    I'm have to ask:  With several well established frame rate standards, how did you wind up with 20 frames per second?   Granted, I get that there are some interesting numbers out there (like 7.5 GPS for Real Video in the 1990s), but lower frame rates are almost always multiples of the standard rates (so, 10, 12, 15).

    W
    Community Expert
    Warren Heaton10841144Community Expert
    Community Expert
    October 19, 2017

    Some formats do allow you to set whatever frame rate you'd like (QuickTime being the best example that I know of, assuming you've chosen a CODeC that allows it).

    Most other formats are standardized with specifications that must be adhered to.  It's what guarantees that you can go from source footage settings, to edit settings, to edited master settings to delivery settings and have files that play as expected.  Going against that is "out of spec".  For example, DV-NTSC can only run at 29.97 or 25.  There's a 24p variation, but it has 3:2 pulldown while on DV tape and can only be removed/pulled up on the computer.  If going back to tape, 3:2 pulldown had to be put back so that it's running at 29.97 again.  DVD-Video is about the same.  If at any point in a workflow an out of spec frame rate is introduced, then the footage cannot be recorded back to DV tape or the duplicated/replicated DVD-Video title will not play as expected in a DVD-Video player.

    The common numbers of 24, 30 and 25 are based on analog formats and the frame rates available in AME's pop-up menu are based on those numbers as well (most being some variation of those).  These and their variations were established for things like picture playing in sync while interlocked with audio, timing a program accurately to the hour, keeping color in phase, functioning with power systems (60Hz, 50Hz).  (I'm sure there's more that I'm not listing.)

    If a client is giving you out of spec files, it's common to bill for the time it takes to remaster/conform the footage.  If it's a really "good" client, you could list the time it takes to conform the footage on your invoice as "no charge".  Although, one could argue that a good producer would go with format standards, including frame rate.

    After Effects will allow you to enter pretty much any frame rate you want.  It used to be capped at 99, but is now 999; however, that's for flexibility with temporal resolution while in After Effects only.

    Getting back to specifications, some CODECs have strict frame rate requirements while others do not.  There's usually a white paper available by whomever published the CODEC that details this.

      W
      Community Expert
      Warren Heaton10841144Community Expert
      Community Expert
      October 20, 2017

      Speaking of high frame rates, have you seen that TV show with the two guys who shoot with a camera that does something like 10,000 fps?  It's stuff exploding and shattering.  I can't remember the name of it.  Humming birds and bees can be fun to shoot at 240.

      If you mean Mythbusters I've seen quite a few of those where they sometimes would shoot with very high fps, but if it's not I don't think I've seen that show (maybe it's not available in the UK). Though I've seen other TV shows with very high fps and on youtube (obviously normally slowed down. I've not seen anything natively shot at >120 fps playing back >120 fps).

      re: Frame rates, I still think that Media Encoder is making their own limitations for what frame rates are available for what codecs when a lot of the time they shouldn't. Even though some devices or websites may be limited to some (but they could and do have specific presets for certain devices eg. Blu-ray), for where it isn't limited by a particular device, Adobe shouldn't add limits where they are unnecessary (they can always highlight the most common frame rates in the list but still allow any supported by the codec (and any level within the codec)).


      Yes, Mythbusters.

      For what it's worth, if you can find a way switch your workflow to QuickTime, then you're good to work at the off-spec frame rates in After Effects and QuickTime Player.

      Interestingly enough, ITU has a video on their home page about standards: ITU Standardization – The technical foundations of the Information Society - YouTube

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