AE MOV color inconsistency

[ribowski]

 I render my composition with ProRes to a MOV file.  After I import the rendered MOV file back into AE and put it into new composition, the preview of it is significantly darker than the composition from which I rendered the MOV. 

I've compared the same frames from my MOV renders with AE preview of the composition  by importing the MOV to Photoshop and rendering the composition frames in AE with "save frame as" option. They are virtually the same so I know my MOV file is fine. The issue is, when I import it back to AE, it seems as if AE was tinkering with it's gamma..

I'm attaching 2 images:

First one shows the MOV frame / Composition frame "save frame as" screenshot (they are the same so just 1 file is enough)

Second one shows the same frame from the MOV file after importing it back to AE.

Any ideas why is that happening? I've switched between 8/16/32 bit color depth, but that didn't resolve the issue.

[Mylenium]

Without any info about the actual CoDec in the MOV, render settings, footage interpretation your color management settings, system info and al lthat none of this has any meaning. Traditionally this has always been an issue since some CoDecs use a different Gamma and it's really not AE's fault plus of course exporting some formats will also hard-change the color ranges doe to how their compression works. Doing a difference overlay on your image suggest exactly that 0.2 Gamma difference that happens when you don't interpret the footage correctly, so that would be the first place to check. Anything more will require more precise info.

Mylenium

[ribowski]

Hi,

Ok, here's additional data. I'm using ProRes - I've made this test with 422, 422HQ, 4444, best quality setting, depth: both trillions and millions of colors. As said earlier, the MOV file itself renders the same vs the frames saved from the preview in AE - the gamma is being altered when the MOV is imported back to AE. Yes, color management settings could be the culprit, but I don't see such a panel in AE? At least not an obvious one like the one in PS. What options should I be looking into? Thanks 

[ribowski]

We can safely assume the MOV file is being rendered ok - the only problem with the file I can think of is that some settings of it are either not embedded in the file or are badly embedded due to some render setting..

Can the color premiultipled vs straight cause problems? I assume that has something to do with the alpha channel but I'm not rendering alpha channel - don't need it in this case.

Also as for color management render settings - I have the Preserve RGB option un-ticked and "Convert to Linear light is On for 32 bpc. Output profile is sRGB as I use sRGB everywhere. 

[Mylenium · Accepted solution]

You may want to read the online help on some basics. Right-click on your footage in the project window to check footage interpretation and check the color management under File -> Project Settings. Proof previews work at the comp level. Again, all explained in the help.

Mylenium 

[ribowski]

Got it!

Footage interpretation -> Color Management -> Assign profile. It was set to Rec.709 Gamma 2.4, while sRGB is 2.2. Thank you for your help, I appreciate it.

[ribowski]

One question though - in project settings -> Color, there's a "Assume Working Gamma:" setting. It's set to 2.4 (Rec.709) which is the reason for this mess. It's greyed out though and I can't change it. Why?

[Mylenium]

This is the workspace Gamma based on the default interpretation rules and profiles. You would override it by using other color profiles, toggling the color depth and using linear blending where this stuff becomes relevant for the grey point conversion. If you find the time, it may be worth experimenting a bit with this stuff to get a feel for which combination of settings does what. As you well know, CM is utterly unintuitive and reading theoretical explanations isn't very satisfying. As already suggested, start by reading the relevant AE help sections and then take it from there. You can always come back to the forum with more specific questions.

Mylenium

[ribowski]

It's not only unintuitive and confusing but sometimes it's just silly - to change that "assume working gamma", I had to switch the color management to NONE (so basically switched it off), then the "assume" option has become available and I switched it to sRGB 2.2. Then I switched back default color profiling to sRGB and the Assume option was left at sRGB..

As for color management - I tried to grasp it once for non-motion imagery, I ended up being more confused than I was before I started, with no clear consensus on how this matter should be approached for online content creation and content creation in general. As a compromise, I just work in sRGB almost all the time (if it's online content creation, be it static or motion), convert everything to sRGB and rely on PNG with ICC color profile included (again - sRGB). This gives me least unpredicted results. I considered buying Apple XDR display or a good Eizo but then again why bother if I'm going to work in sRGB anyway... 🙂 Unless it's for the pleasure of my own eyes before I reduce it to sRGB.

[Mylenium]

Yeah, 10 or 12 bit displays are a whole other level even in PS, especially since they support them natively. If your "unscientific" workflow does the trick, then stick with it. No need to get into the weeds just to impress preople. 😉

Mylenium

[ribowski]

After reading all the shitstorm debates I came to a conclusion that if the person receiving your work sees it on his uncalibrated, random monitor or phone screen, it's best to stick with the most "basic" color profile / the one that's assumed by many apps/ operating systems etc (sometimes images get stripped from their color profiles). And that's sRGB. And you still have very limited control of how your work. At least this way colors wont look significantly washed out or oversaturated (if you used Adobe RGB for instance and some software / page reformats the image after upload and strips the color profile altogether without conversion...)

Anyway, that's as you said my unscientific approach and findings. Thanks again for your help with my issue, appreciate it!

[ribowski]

*And you still have very limited control of how your work looks at screens you don't own at home.