Skip to main content
John Ratard
John Ratard
Inspiring
February 1, 2018
Answered

Upscale 8mm digital converted film to 1920x1080 HD

  • February 1, 2018
  • 2 replies
  • 6414 views

I would like to include 8mm film @ 30fps digital conversion 720x480 type 2 AVI (dvsd) from 1950-1960 into a recent 1920x1810 60p AVCHD master Premier Pro project. I was hoping to use After Effects to upscale the 720x480 to 1920x1810 if possible.

I have reviewed forum instructions for a 720x480 60i DV (non square pixels) upscale to 960x720 60p (square pixels) as follows:

  1. Import the DV master into After Effects CC
  2. Right click the file in the project bin, go to Interpret footage, then Main
  3. Set Conform frame rate to 59.94, hit okay
  4. Drag this movie to the new composition button
  5. Select the composition in the project bin, hit Command+K to open the comp properties
  6. Set the frame size to 960x720
  7. Set the duration to double the original
  8. Set pixel aspect ratio to square, hit okay
  9. Select the video layer in the new comp, then go to the Layer menu, select Time, then Time Stretch and enter 200, then hit okay, the number should match the frame duration you just got from doubling the original
  10. Now, add the Detail preserving upscale effect
  11. Click fit width
  12. Export

As I am new to upscaling with this more ambitious project with lots to learn, how should  I proceed?

      This topic has been closed for replies.
      Correct answer thinkshock

      I'm going to assume that your target is actually 1920x1080 and that 1920x1810 is just an error because I'm not aware of that resolution.

      The moment you create a 1920x1080 composition it will automatically be a square pixel format and your source footage will convert to square pixel once you place it in the composition.

      You don't need to do the intermediary step of creating a 960x720 composition. You can use "Detail Preserving Upscale" inside of the 1920x1080 composition and it will get you there in one step. I believe it's a 225% scale, but the effect will allow you to automatically scale to the height of the composition.

      The end result should be a 1440x1080 image inside of the 1920x1080 composition with black bars on the side.

      If you choose to the fill the whole frame you will either have to stretch the image horizontally making everyone look a little fat or scale the image up even further so that the top and bottom of the original image are cropped out but you will maintain the original aspect ratio. I personally don't like scaled up or stretched images, but it appears to be a common choice these days.

      You do not have to change the frame rate of the footage unless your really, really want to. 60i and 60p are the same frame rate and realistically your footage originated as a 24fps source that has probably been through a telecine process to 29.97 fps.

      All the frame rate variations can be very confusing and complicated but as long as your source footage doesn't have sync sound it's going to be hard to mess things up. However, if there's actually sound attached to the footage, changing frame rates has the potential to make things go south pretty fast. Without getting too technical an old rule of thumb is to keep decimal frame rates together (23.976, 29.97, 59.94) and whole number frame rates together (24p, 30i, 60i, 60p, etc.) It's difficult to explain working with different frame rates, which tends to require a lot of working experience (and some horrible out of sync deliveries) to really appreciate the issue.

      There is possibly one other thing you will have to do. If your footage looks jagged or seems to have kind of a horizontal blinds effect running through everything, particularly fast movement, it's because you're originating from an "interlaced" source. In that case choose the source clip inside of after effects, go to interpret footage:main and select "separate fields". Most likely it will be Lower Field First, but if that doesn't look better then choose Upper Field First.

      2 replies

      T
      thinkshockCorrect answer
      Participant
      February 1, 2018

      I'm going to assume that your target is actually 1920x1080 and that 1920x1810 is just an error because I'm not aware of that resolution.

      The moment you create a 1920x1080 composition it will automatically be a square pixel format and your source footage will convert to square pixel once you place it in the composition.

      You don't need to do the intermediary step of creating a 960x720 composition. You can use "Detail Preserving Upscale" inside of the 1920x1080 composition and it will get you there in one step. I believe it's a 225% scale, but the effect will allow you to automatically scale to the height of the composition.

      The end result should be a 1440x1080 image inside of the 1920x1080 composition with black bars on the side.

      If you choose to the fill the whole frame you will either have to stretch the image horizontally making everyone look a little fat or scale the image up even further so that the top and bottom of the original image are cropped out but you will maintain the original aspect ratio. I personally don't like scaled up or stretched images, but it appears to be a common choice these days.

      You do not have to change the frame rate of the footage unless your really, really want to. 60i and 60p are the same frame rate and realistically your footage originated as a 24fps source that has probably been through a telecine process to 29.97 fps.

      All the frame rate variations can be very confusing and complicated but as long as your source footage doesn't have sync sound it's going to be hard to mess things up. However, if there's actually sound attached to the footage, changing frame rates has the potential to make things go south pretty fast. Without getting too technical an old rule of thumb is to keep decimal frame rates together (23.976, 29.97, 59.94) and whole number frame rates together (24p, 30i, 60i, 60p, etc.) It's difficult to explain working with different frame rates, which tends to require a lot of working experience (and some horrible out of sync deliveries) to really appreciate the issue.

      There is possibly one other thing you will have to do. If your footage looks jagged or seems to have kind of a horizontal blinds effect running through everything, particularly fast movement, it's because you're originating from an "interlaced" source. In that case choose the source clip inside of after effects, go to interpret footage:main and select "separate fields". Most likely it will be Lower Field First, but if that doesn't look better then choose Upper Field First.

      John Ratard
      John RatardAuthor
      Inspiring
      February 3, 2018

      I was able to get an excellent upscale with a test case, reasonable close in quality to the avi resulting from the 8mm telecine.  Unfortunately, the frame rate created abnormally fast video motion since I am confused with how frame rate is set.

      In my original post I included the 12 steps I used as a guide for upscaling.  I made changes to suite my particular requirements.  Following to step 7, I could not find where to "Set the duration to double the original" nor the purpose of "then Time Stretch and enter 200" in step 9.  I imagine this has something to do with frame rate.

      I used 200 in the Layer menu Time Stretch to upgrade 30fps to 60fps used in the master project I am using in which this avi video will be used. From what you have mentioned in your reply 2 regarding the automatic square pixel conversion, I probably should not have done this since the After Effects (AE) project used for the upscaling was set to the master settings of 60fps before importing the avi 30fps. The 200 time stretch must have doubled the fps again.

      Please confirm the purpose of step 7 and step 9 in my original post.  Why the two steps that to me appear to serve the same purpose to change the frame rate?  Also, where would I set step 7?

      R
      Community Expert
      Rick GerardCommunity Expert
      Community Expert
      February 5, 2018

      Thank you Rick.  I  will rethink how I have interpreted the previous information I have so far.  I will also need to carefully study the help provided by Adobe training on upscaling to understand all the variable functions provided in the software, hoping that the Adobe training also includes film prior to video.

      So far I have acceptable results, to be revisited, for the test run using 8mm film from the South Pacific in high humidity.  I also need the following:

      1. I am missing perhaps more advanced information on removing some black irregular dots from frames and ways to sharpen apart from Photoshop and Unsharp Mask.
      2. I also need to better understand what is an automatic conversion, e.g. pixel shape or frame rates, and what is not when importing a video format into a project with a different format.

      My present dilemma is how I reward more than one reply with Correct Answer to also include yours.


      Don't worry about it. I am not looking for points, just trying to help. Video production is a very precise science and the billions of combinations of knobs you can throw in AE to manipulate pixels and time can be overwhelming. Only a very small percentage of visual effects and motion graphics artists have the depth of knowledge required to get the work done in the least amount of time with the best results. For example, it is extremely important that you understand the relationship between frame rate, display refresh rate and motion in a shot so you do not end up with a shot that is unwatchable. There is a lot to learn...

      Dave_LaRonde
      Dave_LaRonde
      Inspiring
      February 1, 2018

      What's the original frame rate of the film before it was converted to digital?

      Is it 4x3 video?

      Why screw with the 960x720 comp when your target resolution's 1920x1080?

      No matter what you do, even pushing Detail Preserving Upscale as far as it can go, this stuff's going to look really bad.

      And I don't understand why they're having you fart around with the frame rate.

      John Ratard
      John RatardAuthor
      Inspiring
      February 1, 2018

      The film frame rate was 8fps using a spring wound Canon video camera with revolving turret.

      I used GSpot to determine the avi 720x480 4x3, frame rate video format.  A telecine like capture arrangement included Cinecap software with a WorkPrinter-XP, a converted projector at 6 fps, a mirror and lens, and a converted mouse. The software captures the 6 fps images and converts to the avi file. A DVD of the film shows a reasonable frame rate.

      The converted film is already of poor quality due to storage in high humidity of Vanuatu. By upscaling I was hoping to minimize the degradation.  Perhaps I do not need to be concerned with frame rate since the export will be imported into the AVCHD Hires setup in Premier Pro and converted there.

      Terms & ConditionsAccessibility statement
      Using the community Terms of use Privacy Cookie preferences Do not sell or share my personal information ad choicesAdChoices