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Frédéric C.
Inspiring
June 9, 2019
Question

Ideas and suggestions for new roadmap

  • June 9, 2019
  • 18 replies
  • 9463 views

Hi,

Now that Harman will manage new versions of AIR, and are asking for community feedback, I thought it would be nice to gather here all ideas, suggestions, bug reports or any brainstorming that could help Andrew and his team plan their next steps.

PLEASE, DON'T use this thread for opinions, ego wars or pure speculations about Adobe or pessimistic views about AIR. There are already two big threads dedicated to this, we don't need a third one. For once, let's try to be factual and constructive. Thank you.

I think we could split the points in three categories:

- Short term actions

- What new features would be appreciated

- Long term plans

1) Short term actions:

- Implement Android 64bits support

- Create a website dedicated to AIR, presenting its features and gathering as much resources as possible. Possibly create also dedicated forums, as Adobe forums may be a cursed place, now.

- Anticipate iOS SDK upgrade for requirements that may come with iOS 13

2) Cool new features:

- Adaptive icon support on Android

- Assets.car generator for iOS developers using Windows platform

- Add more texture RAM for mobile

- Improve Android audio support

- Make some AS3 methods compatible with object pooling like for example Matrix.transformPoint

3) Long term plans

- Market AIR and spread the word about this tech. Provide tutorials, examples, videos...

- Keep Android and iOS SDK up to date

- Maintain compatibility with current toolchains, including Adobe Animate

- Linux target ?

- Web target ?

Those are the points I had in mind, but I'm sure you all have specific needs and ideas. So please, share!

This topic has been closed for replies.

18 replies

Inspiring
July 30, 2019

All I care about is supporting new hardware and operating systems as soon as legally possible.

Like, not crashing on the Android Q beta. And displaying properly on Samsung's Galaxy S10+ ON DAY ONE. I want HARMAN to work privately with Google, Apple and Samsung to preemptively fix compatibility issues on the OS side, before they even happen. If that isn't possible, I want an AIR update available to fix it as soon as I hear about any compatibility issue. If Apple or Google changes the way they handle icons or permissions, I don't want to be hacking open my APK to fix it with obscure advice from the forums, and I don't want to wait 3 months for the next update cycle. I want an official solution available immediately from HARMAN.

Inspiring
July 30, 2019

Support for consoles, html5 and linux (again) would be cool BUT -

I switched to Unity years ago when it became clear Adobe had lost interest in AIR and was more likely to drop platforms than add new ones. They knew about Android's 64 bit requirement for two years and never so much as commented on it. Harman has a LOT of work to do to convince me that AIR isn't still in end-of-life mode right now. And to be honest, so far it looks like the new AIR team is 3 or 4 people max and they're already in over their heads. Unity has 2000 employees. I'll pay for AIR 33 because I want my older games to keep working on new phones, but I'd be mad to bet my company's future on AIR right now.

Inspiring
July 23, 2019

Adobe AIR for smatwatches (Samsung / Apple)

Widget for Android ?

Inspiring
July 22, 2019

Still comparing Unity to AIR...

It doesn't make sense.

They are used in different scenarios.

Inspiring
July 22, 2019

I haven't really look deep into the pricing and even got some wrong but if the pricing comparison presented by juvelez is correct or fairly close then AIR might even by more expensive in some scenarios. If that's the case then it makes matters even worse for AIR.

If there are scenarios where AIR is more expensive than Unity, then we should expect the most expensive option to also be the one that provides the most. Clearly it's not the case with AIR vs Unity. Again, if the comparison juvelez presented is correct then in the scenarios where AIR is more expensive who in their right mind would still pick AIR?

Known Participant
July 18, 2019

Taking in count that Harman is going to charge for AIR SDK, they will have to work hard to make it much more competitive, if they are comparing the possible pricing plans with Unity ones, they must make AIR technically comparable with Unity, this could be:

  • 2D Editor, because Animate wont be included in the Harman price plans, unless be an AIR subscription included for Adobe CC subscribers. It would be logic and fair that the long time Adobe supporters are taking in count with some kind of priority, or at least a discount.
  • 3D Editor, this has been a huge lack since Stage3D appearance, and if they want to compare AIR with Unity, they must implement one.
  • GUI Editor, this is another feature of Unity that AIR must have to be comparable.
  • Complete native access included and less ANE dependent, they must think on the developers costs balance points, right now most of them are paying a lot of money for almost every native functionality for each app on a subscription basis, monthly or yearly, and no matter if their apps are old, they must pay for their subscriptions or their apps will stop working. If the business is going to be on the SDK and building tools, the ANEs Market Place must be reduced to a just special or specific functionality, not for almost everything like now. AIR must include native access or implementation to: Social integration, IAP, Ads Networks, all sensors, ARCore, ARKit, server less P2P, robust multiplayer/user API, updated StageWebView and HTMLLoader, among a lot of other features. Developers can't still paying for Adobe CC, for ANEs subscriptions plus Adobe AIR SDK/Tools subscription fee, this will become AIR the most expensive pipeline on the market.
  • Again, if they want to charge something similar to Unity, they MUST include all of the platforms Unity offer: Standalone Win,Mac and Linux, iOS, Android, UWP, tvOS, PS4, Xbox, WebGL/HTML5, Facebook.
  • They MUST think on AR/VR/MR/XR, it is mandatory for today development, Unity offers a lot of solutions and integration possibilities to all of them.
  • A real support channel, ticked based, realtime chat, email, among support forums, not only community forums like now.
Flipline
Inspiring
July 18, 2019

I understand where you're coming from with the idea of "if they're charging what Unity charges, it must do everything that Unity can do", but I do think AIR is its own beast which has its own strengths that are different from Unity (although of course there is a lot of overlap), and it doesn't necessarily need to follow exactly in its footsteps.

There are so many varied use cases for AIR, I'm sure it's tricky for Harman (or Adobe previously) to decide what to implement or focus on for roadmaps.  Some developers are using it for UI-based apps, some for games, some using Starling, some using GPU-accelerated vector graphics, etc., so what would benefit one group may not benefit some others.  Personally I don't have any need myself for a 2D/3D/GUI Editor, and that sounds like it would be a HUGE undertaking to basically make a replacement for Adobe Animate with the addition of 3D features which Animate never had.  I'm also not as concerned about having all native features being added to the core of AIR, for all of the ANEs we've used the pricing has been very reasonable and don't require ongoing subscriptions.  I'd much rather see them spend time on adding new features/updates to the AIR runtime and fixing bugs that have been hanging around for years, and keeping up with the moving target of mobile app store requirements.  Though of course there are others using AIR in different ways who may have different needs.

Inspiring
July 19, 2019

It's still actually only one seat of Unity for $125 -- you do get 3 seats of "Unity Teams Advanced" included which is a completely different product.  Aside from that though, I agree with you that AIR shouldn't be compared with Unity since they're not really in the same category, and yeah that's a tough sell for attracting new developers if they're looking at the two side by side.  In our case the AIR pricing is fine for allowing us to update/maintain our existing apps, and to continue with some new apps that use the same pipeline, but getting support from new developers vs. the built-in customer base of legacy developers will be the real challenge here.


I see, I misread the Unity pricing completely then. So yeah AIR is definitely cheaper but like you said AIR shouldn't be compared to Unity anyway.

KramSurfer2
Inspiring
June 12, 2019

StageWebView and HTMLLoader rendered with chromium on desktop and Android.  Would open the whole HTML5 world to be easily embedded in an AIR app.   iOS is already using the latest browser, it's a huge gap in the cross platform ability.


That's it.  All I dream about...

Yes I'm aware I can 'roll my own' to get this functionality with quite a bit of effort and separate advanced installers.

Participant
June 11, 2019

- Increased or uncapped (with desktop) texture memory limit.

- 8k x 8k image support.

- Updated media support: VP8/VP9/Vorbis/Opus
- VP8/VP9 with alpha.  FLV supports alpha.  Dropping FLV export from Adobe products back around 2012 has left us without a means to export video with alpha channel, something that has never been replaced!
- 4K camera support (desktop, but maybe mobile too?).
- Linux support again.

- Native serial communication (micro-controllers).

- Funding for projects like Starling, Feathers, perhaps even a re-awakening of Away3D if you're really serious about this.

Inspiring
June 10, 2019

Another thing, in term of new features to add
try to think in "points"

it is very easy to just throw a "oh just add a web target", "oh just target PS4 and XBOX", etc.
it is one line to write, but the development of such feature is extremely big and time consuming

I would say a fixed sound API would be along the 5 to 10 points
and a web target would be around the 500 points mark (if not more)

and "console support", let's say for just one console around the 2000 points (if not more)

whatever ratio/weight you decide to apply to those points
if 5 points is 2 month of development effort, then 500 points is 200 months

also those points should ultimately be decided by HARMAN
they know how hard/easy such and such feature would be to develop

so even if you (asking for a new feature) estimate something at 2 points
but then HARMAN (investigating it) estimate it to 10 points, then 10 points it is

I would say the one who actually develop the features win in the estimate

we can not just ask anything and everything, eg. asking a lot of features requiring a lot of points

just gonna give the impression that "nothing is done" when in fact people are just asking for "too much too soon"


remember also that Adobe in their release schedule moved from 1year+ release to quarterly release
that also influence how much or how big can be shipped per release

Inspiring
June 11, 2019

A few years back an Adobe engineer told me that yeah the SoundAPI is crap but fixing it would be a huge undertaking and Adobe would never go for it. Based on that I'm not sure the 5 to 10 points work here but maybe he was wrong and if he was how come this has not been fixed since FP9 if it was so easy?

Inspiring
June 10, 2019

Not sure this is the correct format to post ideas but for me AIR would be more attractive (not especially better) to new developers if it had:

- a fixed SoundAPI (since FP9 the AS3 SoundAPI has been the worse on the market, even HTML5 beats it in every way)

- a web target. (if this was NOT relevant I think flutter and Unity would NOT have it)

Inspiring
June 10, 2019

I would advise if people report things to spend the time investigating it and have a sample to demonstrate the problem

instead of just adding the so called problem to a pile of thing that only gonna get bigger with time.

Whatever the size of the HARMAN dev team, if you made them investigate "bugs" that are not really there,

you basically make them lose a lot of time they could have spent doing other things.

so my opinion is whoever report a bug, should have a sample, details on how to compile it,

pass it around to few other dev (not just 2, at least 3 or 5), so it can be confirmed,

and then you report the bug to HARMAN.

the "I heard someone had a bug so I report it", sorry I don't think this help at all.

Frédéric C.
Inspiring
June 10, 2019

zwetan_uk​ Yes, I agree, reporting minor or new bugs is not what I was suggesting. I was more thinking of well known, long-standing bugs that were never fixed by Adobe,and that some people have been waiting for a long time (I'm sure there are a few).

@Leo Kanel: Yes, that's actually what I proposed in the other thread, but I think it would be better if this Trello was created and managed by Harman. This thread is a first attempt at gathering most popular requests from the community, to then fill the Trello with (or whatever solution is used).

Inspiring
June 10, 2019

So here is the code of the test that shows how much slower Windows 64bit captive is when compared to Windows 32bit captive:

package

{

    import flash.display.Sprite;

    import flash.display.StageAlign;

    import flash.display.StageScaleMode;

    import flash.events.Event;

    import flash.text.TextField;

    import flash.text.TextFormat;

    import flash.utils.getTimer;

    import flash.utils.setTimeout;

   

    [SWF(frameRate="60", width="1280", height="720", backgroundColor="0x000000")]

    public class Windows64BitPerformanceTest extends Sprite

    {

        private static var i:int = 0;

        private static var c:int = 0;

        private static var m:int = 0;

        private static var f:int = 0;

       

        private static const ITERATION_COUNT:uint = 500000000;

        private var _logTextField:TextField;

        private var _logTextFormat:TextFormat;

       

        public function Windows64BitPerformanceTest()

        {

            stage.align = StageAlign.TOP_LEFT;

            stage.scaleMode = StageScaleMode.NO_SCALE;

           

            this.loaderInfo.addEventListener(Event.COMPLETE, this.loaderInfoLoadCompleteEventHandler);

        }

       

        protected function loaderInfoLoadCompleteEventHandler(event:Event):void

        {

            _logTextFormat = new TextFormat('Verdana', 40, 0xFFFFFF, true, false, false, null, null, 'center');

           

            _logTextField = new TextField();

            _logTextField.setTextFormat(_logTextFormat);

            _logTextField.defaultTextFormat = _logTextFormat;

            _logTextField.width = stage.stageWidth;

            _logTextField.y = stage.stageHeight / 2;

            addChild(_logTextField);

           

            setTimeout(runTest, 1000);

        }

       

        private function runTest():void

        {

            var time:int = getTimer();

           

            for(i = 0; i <= ITERATION_COUNT; i++)

            {

                f += incrementC();

                f += incrementM();

            }

           

            _logTextField.appendText('Completed in ' + (getTimer() - time).toString() + ' milliseconds.');

        }

       

        private function incrementC():int

        {

            if(isModule2(c) == 1)

            {

                c += 1;

            }

            else

            {

                c += 2;

            }

           

            return c;

        }

       

        private function incrementM():int

        {

            if(isModule2(m) == 1)

            {

                m += 1;

            }

            else

            {

                m += 2;

            }

           

            return m;

        }

       

        private function isModule2(v:int):int

        {

            if(v % 2 == 0)

            {

                return 1;

            }

            else

            {

                return 0;

            }

        }

    }

}

On my machine this test completes in around 15 seconds for 32bit but for 64bit it took 43 seconds so this difference is very huge. This test was run on Windows 10 with Intel i7 CPU. This was tested with latest AIR 32 SDK.

Also here are the download link for executable files of this test for both 32bit and 64bit so guys please test it if you have AMD CPU to see if there is difference:

http://bit.do/eUCzx