Unexpected stroke scaling inside clips using Animate CC 2020

[rnbutler87]

Hi,

I'm a long time Flash user but haven't used it in about 5 years. I've come back to it now and so have just downloaded the latest Adobe Animate CC 2020 trial and am playing around with it. I'm loving a lot of the new features like the camera and layer depth and parenting. 

BUT

What's going on with stroke widths? It's a bit hard to explain so I've recorded a video:

https://www.loom.com/share/526c4fc551d143bd8087bfac5d703c20

If the stroke scale is set to 'Normal', the symbol behaves, for the most part, as expected. When you zoom on the stage or camera, or scale the clip proportionally, the strokes scale proportionatlely. However, if I just want to scale an arm symbol along one axis, for example, the whole stroke scales.

Doing some digging, I can see that I could set the scaling to horizontal. But then I would never be able to stretch the arm in the vertical axis without the artowk stroke width increasing. You can see the problem because it means that different parts of the rig will have different stroke widths over the course of the animation (note the differing thicknesses of the stretched sleeve to the hand) or limit me in not being able to squash and stretch limbs - one of the major principles of successful animation!

The solution online seems to be to set the scaling of the stroke to 'None'. BUT then strokes don't scale at all in any scenario, whether zooming in on the stage or zooming or out using the camera; they stay at a fixed width. Which is an even less desirable solution!

Am I missing something? Because this seems pretty obvious but I can't find a setting in preferences or anywhere to get this working as expected.

I'm not harking back to the 'good old days' but rather trying to find the solution to a problem now when animating in this program using a character using strokes for outlines. 

The other solution which is an obvious but undesirable fix is just to not use strokes as outlines for my character - outline everything using the brush tool. However, this is not a good solution because it is a lot more work, introduces the management of a lot more verticies, and it precludes you from being able to change line thicknesses for a whole character as the scene demands it, e.g. for far away or closeup shots, with other characters or scenes etc

If any one can help point me in the right direction I'd be really grateful!

Many thanks.

[n. tilcheff]

Just don't use the camera, mate, and all will be well!

Sooner or later you will end up running into one of its bugs and then you'll be annoyed at wasting so much time, making your project dependent on an unreliable feature.

Nest your animation inside a Graphic Symbol, sync it to the main timeline and use that as camera - error-proof and tested for decades.

An example of how to do it can be downloaded here:   http://flash-powertools.com/edapt-movie-template-free-download/

You won't be able to use Layer Depth if you work one level deep, but hey, no sane person works on the main timeline anyway. It's a path to disaster and devs know that very well. So Layer Depth is out of the way too. 

What's left? Layer Parenting. Good luck in the mine field.

Welcome to Animate in 2020, where each new feature is in contradiction with all the rest!

[rnbutler87]

Hi, appreciate your reply.

I'm disappointed now with your review of these new features! And indeed, I can see that layer depth does not work inside symbols, which is disappointing because I was hoping this would provide a neat solution for getting limbs to go infront of and behind body parts without having to key them on a new layer.

In terms of the line weight issue, am I missing something then when zooming in and out of the canvas (using regular zoom tools, not camera zoom)? For example, when stroke weight scaling is set to none (which is great, so you can squash and stretch your symbols without the line weight changing), when you use the zoom tool to zoom in and out of the stage the strokes seem to remain the same size in relation to the viewer.  See the video to see what I mean:

https://www.loom.com/share/38d6364584d142a08af214be4d28122c

As a result, when you zoom out, the thickness of the line weight looks so thick in relation to the character, so much so that it actually obscures the character!?

Is there are setting I'm missing to rectify this bizarre functionality?

Many thanks.

[n. tilcheff]

I did see the first video, mate. It all made perfect sense.

And also thought your post was very well written and all points you made were valid, that is why I said what I said.

'None' would have some limited application in some limited scenarios (where sizes stay the same) and it is a welcome feature, but for anything practical you would just have to use 'normal'.

Zoomed out view is a minor concern as the outlines will still render fine, but if you scale the character down or up, you will experience the same effect and it will not look good. 'None' is 'none'. And you want proportional, but with intelligent compensation, which is not available. 

(If I try to formulate the logic about how such compensation could be implemented, I'd say the only thing I can think of as a point of reference for the scaling would be nesting the character two levels deep and getting the scaling from the outer wrapper; then you would be able to distort your internal symbols as much as you like and stroke scaling won't change. But if you scale the whole, it will scale proportionally. I doubt that such approach will ever be even considered by the devs as it requires an advanced structure to function. Professional software Animate may be, but they are trying to appeal to the novices and still promoting bad practices such as animating on the main timeline, not registering your symbols properly and even using Movie Clips for animation as they seem to consider this 'easier' to do.)

If you don't do too extreme squash and stretch and if you don't hold any of these extreme poses, 'normal' should be fine.

If you need to hold them, you'll have to add frames inside the symbol and give it special attention.

I've personally developed a taste to design characters without outlines or with only partial outlines as it's more functional this way. I know it's a stylistic preference and won't argue against outlines.

[rnbutler87]

Thanks again for your response!

I've just fired up my old version of Flash CS6 because I was convinced this stroke scaling was a new feature and worked fine in the old versions. I was going to do a comparison to ask for further clarity. BUT I can see now that it behaves in the exact same way...! I can't believe I animated in flash for 5 years and never noted these scaling features. So then I cranked up CS5 (I'm sure I heard creaking and groaning on start up) and to my amazement this functionality/behaviour existed here too...

I suppose thinking about it, all the characters I animated during this time either had a hand drawn brushed outline or stylistically had no outline. 

So I'm happy in one sense that this isn't a new feature that Adobe have added in the time I've been away from it. I have no objection now and will happily do it another way, probably draw the character outlines using the brush,

I definitely agree with you when you say: "[Adobe are] still promoting bad practices such as animating on the main timeline, not registering your symbols properly and even using Movie Clips for animation as they seem to consider this 'easier' to do"

I can't imagine animating the character/s all on the main timeline, it's almost a necessity to have one graphic clip as the master rig for each character. And I can't remember the last time I used a movie clip; surely they would know a character animator uses almost exclusively graphic clips?!

Anyway, think I'm getting off topic... 😄

Thank you again for your assistance. Really appreciated it, my mind is much more at ease haha.

I am still intrigued by these camera bugs you mention though as it seems such a neat feature, as well as the layer parenting comment... So quick question: what were the bugs and would you advise not to bother using the layer parenting system and instead stick to the age old practice of nesting symbols inside parent symbols, like the facial features and face background all nested inside a 'head' graphic clips?)

Many thanks!

[n. tilcheff]

Hi again, mate!

Yeah, stroke scaling has been around for a while 🙂

The oldest Flash I have here is 8, so I grabbed a picture for you for the fun of it:

Do a search in these forums for 'camera'. You will find plenty of threads.

As for the Layer Parenting, the implementation will lead you to similar problems you faced with the stoke scaling. There are just too many dead ends; things that make it impractical and clumsy to use for real work.

The only good thing about it is that the elements tween along arcs.

It will be worth exploring LP though to determine for yourself.

I just want to give you one more option - Smart Magnet Rigs. With Flash CS6 you will have the best combination.

Good luck with your work and stay healthy!

[rnbutler87]

Hi,

Thanks for your advice, I still can't believe I've never seen that in all the versions I've used!

The smart magnet rig looks interesting, just watched a video on it. I'll look in to it some more to see exactly how to install and use but looks like it could be a useful tool.

Thanks again for your help!

[Andrea5CB5]

Hello,.

Select your lines and set it at "Expend to Fill"

🙂

[Pawan36367252to5d]

Life saver dude, I only started using Adobe animate like 3 days ago, was stuck on this problem, thanks!