Export via markers not possible

[general_failure]

Hi,

The situation: a 50 minute live track of a band, in the multitrack view I have 2 stereo tracks with some effects.

I added a dozen range markers for the songs. in the Markers list they appear with correct start, end and duration. I named them after the songs. (the markers are Range markers, NOT point markers)

Then  when I select  all markers in the markers list, the option File->Export->Audio within range markers is still grayed out.

Also the 4th and 5th icon in the marker list stay gray ("insert selected range markers in playlist" and "export audio of selected ranges into separate files")

I know this should work, i did this before, but now it won't. I know back then i had to do an aditional action to activate the menu, but stupid me forgot to jot that down somewhere...

Can anyone give a hint?

[ryclark]

Markers are merged into ranges. See Steve's answer #11 above.

Merge = Combine or cause to combine to form a single entity (O.E.D.)

[MarkWeiss]

This should really be a lot simpler. I came over from SoundForge, but I can see that I will be doing this kind of work in SoundForge, because I've wasted too many hours trying to make it work in Audition, only to be facing greyed out option menus.

And when I do manage to export something, why does it take more than the blink of an eye to export? It feels like I'm back on a 486/33 with a slow HDD. SoundForge exports all tracks in about 6 seconds. Audition is taking up to 30 seconds to export just one track. Why so slow?

[HarleyTDavis]

Hi everybody.  I do a lot of audio work for a community group NPO that does live shows and events.  I've also had some issues that were noted here.  I've found ways to help deal with them.

Issue 1:

Multiple mixes--

          There arent a lot of ways to do this quickly.  If you use markers, make sure you stretch them across a range (having a definitive start and end)

               step 1. Save your multitrack session and all associated audio with a specific folder and name.

                         2. For every other mix, if you have areas you want to work with separately, place markers.

                         3.  This works best if you have a preset for your multitrack session (you can just create new), but that means adding any effects to their own preset etc; I prefer save as, and give it a new folder and name, then start working by trimming down to the marker area you want to work with.  I would leave the marker where it is, Copy the audio and place it at the beginning.  Now work with it, and save all effects to a preset (effects bank preserts can apply to clips or whole selections of mixed audio and have multiple effects you can adjust after).  Of course, you could paste several in line, with about 2s between and make small adjustments to each so you can play back and hear each one, choosing which is best.  IF your markered area is still there, you can remove it.  You just want the audio it surrounded.  Once finished editting, save the FX and edits (which I will get back to in a moment).  Now you have a choice.  You can try a copy\paste method (doesn't work well),  or you can do a selection replace method using files.  I recommend the files.

                         4. (my way)  Save the audio tracks as separate files in your editing setup, note the track names in the filenames.  Now open your original and save a new copy in a new location.  Now you can import the files into this spare project, and use them to replace audio in areas.  What you'll need now:  A notepad.  Select your marker and it's area, write down the start and end locations.  Now you can manually move to the areas you want.

                         5.  Do this repeatedly to replace the audio in each track:

                                        make sure your audio from the edits is imported as files.

                                        Select each file in turn, and copy it, then select the track it goes to, and go to the timecode panel; you can manually type in the area to view, so add 5s either way from what you wrote down.  Now go to the selection area of the panel, put in exactly what you wrote down for start and end, and right click to REPLACE or simply PASTE over it.  Inspect the view for any breaks.  Repeat for each track necessary.

******This took me 20min to edit each marked section, and about 3 minutes to paste; File save and audio adjustment times will vary by how much you edit a section.

To Save your markers for reference (also works with almost any panel):

Separate the panel from the main interface by grabbing it's tab and pulling it outside the main window (over your desktop; you may have to resize the main window first to make this possible).  THis will make it into a separate window.  You can now blow it up as big as necessary by resizing windows.  Now you can take a screen shot.  You may print or store this for later.  I've tried using it for OCR, it doesn't work well (screens are inherently 72ppi).  In this screen to print world, 72 is standard screening, but 200 and 300 dpi are print standards, and the minimum for most OCR apps.  You can create a photoshop app that can BW, then sharpen, darken, and upconvert your graphics, but it doesn't always work.  1 out of 5 IME(in my experience).  You can change the PPI of your screen display in windows, temporarily, and adjust all the sizing for better viewing.  Not many gfx drivers support more than 150 (this is much closer to minimum and you can scale up the def a lot easier).

This has saved me a few times with crashes from old age hardware.  You cannot import export your markers, but if you can use an ocr program to get them into a txt, doc, docx etc, you can copy paste the info for each marker.  With a few hundred markers like I use... ...best to save often (autosave every 5 min), and have a sync of the folder across 2 separate physical devices (IE one HDD or RAID tower for working, the other for backup; I like to RAID SSD's  with stripe, mirror, and use a simple desktop drive with a magnetic HDD RAID with stripe and parity to do an imaging of those to it once a day with acronis; only new stuff gets written, and it takes 2 hours to reload 300gb--so I take a walk through the park with my girl, or my family, or just by myself and hope they don't think I'm a pedophile, then come home and get to work).

Finally:

NO YOU CANNOT COPY MARKERS FROM AUDITION TO OTHER PROGRAMS EASILY.  They are not metatagged the same way.  However, if you mark the tracks, and save each file as MOV or another "EMPTY" movie type, it's possible you might be able to save the markers.  MP4 might allow it, but I haven't Tried it yet.  I have had the markers carry into a .MOV on mac.  If they can be pulled from the meta in an AVI or MOV and IMPORTED into another app like After Effects (Which can copy the marker objects, just not intuitively; you'll need to find a script for it), you can find a way to move them around.

Alternatively:

If you are working with video and audio together, try a dynamic link from premiere pro.  You can also start in Premiere Pro, place your audio, scrub and place markers, then link to audition, and work.  However, your original audio will have to be saved in audition as separate files for each track, then each file placed on a track in premiere, and then exported to audition; if it freezes or fails, your audio is greater than 4gb, and you have to place cuts in premiere so you can have it all move as chunks.  When you save the original file, save again and give it a new name and location.  Work from this file, and anytime you wish to revert, you have to rename your old save, and copy it over the new one in your files (not in audition or premiere).  With your markers set in premiere, you can do the screenshot trick from above, and then put markers in your audio to match.  Now you can do whatever you want.  Quit both programs, open the session linked to your premiere, save it with a new name and location and start working on a section.  Open the session linked to your premiere again and copy paste like I describe above.  It's a lot of work to produce professional, consistent results, but you'll always have backups of the originals to start with.  I like making several editions, some time apart, and I keep a copy of every disc and output file to compare the quality of the work.  Sometimes I do Anthologies, which means I'll do a whole year or whole SEASON (winter, spring, summer, fall) from several years, and I want to compare quality after software\hardware changes, resolution fixes etc.

My workroom dream:

3 monitors of 16;9 AR 1;1 at 21inches maybe 32

1 tv\projection at 50-60in at 6k capable

all wired to KVM with 3 computers, each with cs6 and CC installed (and a 4th that's a laptop for onsite work recording\ingesting)

each machine has 2 main monitors over vga or dvi, 1 extra for playback over hdmi, each monitor serves 2comps

monitor 1 is for comp 1 main and for my mobile as a second monitor -kvm1

monitor 2 is comp2 main, comp 1 secondary, comp 3 secondary---mon 2 to kvm 2 tokvm3 to comp3

Monitor 3 is comp3 main

an HDMI kvm ports all to TV

Not a bad dream...

Now imagine renderfarming those with the latest CC... ...sweet.

[HarleyTDavis]

Yes this is a four year old thread, and there are still some features that "grey" out when you try to use them.  I'll try to answer what I can right now.

For those trying to cut up a long mix into smaller sections, markers are a great way to do it, but you're leaving out a step.  Usually you delete the audio around a marker, then Save As a new session, the marker isn't supposed to cut each track only the master output tracks when you're in the multitrack editor.  Use markers, please, but place cut marks on all the tracks, there is a tool for this in the tools palette, where you see the blade tool, there is a variation of the tool to cut all tracks at the chosen point.  You can then either delete everything around the slicing and save as, or you can select each clip you sliced and save it as a new clip.  It's faster to save a new session, as it will associate with the same full audio files, allowing you to add some handles to it for crossfade or fade\in\out, and it won't take up new space.  This is also done in pro tools or almost any other DAW I've ever worked with, though some allow you to set up scene marks and dump each scene to a new mix session.

For those who wish to mix and then cut up your markers, you can simply mixdown the session, the markers will go with it.  Once done, you can export the markers to a CSV to protect them and move them to other apps by hand.  The kicker is that you'll still have to match the timecode formats between apps or prepare to do a lot more math.

Sometimes I just drop a live show audio out to a stereo file, then cut it up, naming the markers, then I bring those markers into my multitrack.  Sometimes I miss a name for a piece, so I have to add it later.  The CSV file feature is awesome for correcting this quickly across the session and stereo mixdown.

Whatever your case, you can only split the audio of the markers apart AFTER you have a working mixed file, otherwise it will not work.  Audition is for basic stereo or 5.1 WAV file mixing, and while you may be able to set up a multitrack that matches that profile exactly, you will only be able to cut the audio up after you mix it down.  One way to ensure this works is to set it up to pour the exact number of inputs to match the output print into right and left respective, panning them full, or into single channels of the 5.1 output mix, then rip them apart into separate files and place them into a new session after you mix it down the first time.  Easier to do with 2 inputs at a time, not so easy with 5 or even 6.  In other words, your best bet is to cut it up and save as a new session by deleting the excess around each marker by ripple delete.  Using a SAVE AS will allow you to keep the original session, and the original audio files, but you will be mixing only a small clip that you can stretch non-destructively.  This works so much better.

CSV export of markers is like an afterthought.  You do it to protect your file data, and to send it to others who will work with it.  You'll still have to match your timecode data to their environment.  I drop several CSV files for this purpose.  I can mix video of different frame rates easily enough by conforming one to another without worrying about sound files not conforming.  I can even save mixes of the sound that conform to the different timecodes so mixing them works out okay.  I can also provide other editors with the files and they can run their own mix.  The CSV drop is just a tool in the box, but the primary capability to chop audio files in a multitrack isn't in any software I've used.  Marking an audio file is in some software, and it allows you to process markers from other software, but don't rely on that feature to be cross platform (it won't work from one software set to another).  Some people have developed a software for fixing that, but you still have a few bugs holding them back, and timecoding is always an issue when the timecodes don't match.

Greying out options that are not functional isn't just an adobe feature.  It's built into the OS you're on... ...That's right, this little menu function is part of the menu standard, allowing programmers to include all options for a menu but change the options available for particular modes very easily, with a few flags, without the necessity to rebuild the menu options every time something changes, only the availability of each option.  It's easier on processing, memory, and coding.  In order to make use of the best code for a particular OS, most programmers working for larger software corporations must submit to certain practices, like making menus static lists, with flags that only alter small bands rather than a whole chunk.  This ensures that the software will look like all other software and be easier to understand.  While I agree that a popup for each tool is useful, adding popups for non-functional tools can cause confusion.  Telling people that an option isn't functional is the same as greying it out.  It's a simplistic message, but it says you are in the wrong mode for the function fairly blatantly.  They also have a large online wiki setup, where you can check on certain functions.  There you will find the mode the function works in.  If you don't see it in your current mode shown in the wiki and it isn't in a note on the page, the option is unavailable in your current mode.  The how and Why are unimportant at that point.  All you need to know is that you need to get to the other mode to make a function work.

For pros and for amateurs:

Audition is for everybody, just like most of the adobe software.  It's designed so seasoned pros can work quickly and efficiently.  It's also feature rich so guys who make a little money on it can work efficiently without being completely confused.  It's designed so that almost anybody can use it, but the pros will understand it.  Where do you fall?  IF you make money on it, congrats, you make money on it.  That doesn't make you "professional" in the eyes of master artists and technologists.  Technically, you are professionally mixing, if you do it for a consistent living, but those who've mastered the program and other programs and understand the how and why of different functions, at least at an academic level, will always be "Pros".  Even professionals "in the biz" don't rise to that level, but they use the software, then complain that something doesn't work, even though the function is simply non-functional in that particular editing mode.  If you complain that your function doesn't work, but others have it working in the same mode, then there is a problem.  If you don't know what mode you're in, you're the problem.  Start reading.  It's easier to track down a software problem when it can be clearly defined, and nearly impossible when the only info people provide is "Software not working".  It's sad but people still believe that the most common problem is a bug in the software.  THis is true less than %5 of the time.  The rest of the time it's user capability.  Sure more features would be nice, but go put in a request, don't call it a bug.  THere's a big difference.  CSV export didn't come to logic pro until version 9.  I don't think Pro tools has it even in their new software release.  Always remember to try before you buy, and try out every feature (except save) so you know you can do it, or you know you can't.  Choose your software accordingly.  IF one fits most of your needs, put in a feature request, and follow it up, please.  At that point you enter the academic level, discussing the functions at a higher level; congrats, you've mastered the technical side of your craft, and are a PRO.  PRO is not the same as professional, but it means you know what you're doing; at least these days there's a distinction.  A PRO Artist has also mastered the application of the technicals to such a degree that their output is artistically sound.  An Artist may not have the technical side down, but they can still create the artwork.  Think of a musician who cannot read music, but can reproduce and even artistically alter any piece they hear, or even create their own works simply by starting with a few played tones and a feeling description; they are an artist, but not a pro, they can be professional, but have no real mastery of their craft.  They are limited to their own connection to a piece, rather than understanding it on any deeper level, and alterations aren't as varied, but conform to patterns they've derived themselves; the how and why escapes them, and they often don't want to know.