How do I save a "project" or session?

[Exigeous]

I'm working on a project that has a number of effects laid in to get a vintage radio sound for a video. I'm not done with the script yet but have worked out the audio effects as I'd like to use them. I'm not seeing how to save this non-destructively so I can come back later and record different narration then apply the affects I have in my rack right now.

This seems incredibly basic so I'm assuming I'm missing something pretty obvious, can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

~Ross

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

If you are working in Multitrack (non-destructive) then you can save rack effects as a preset, which you can re-use. But since you haven't told us very much about exactly how you are working, it's difficult to go any further. Even if you are working in Waveform (destructive) view you can still save rack presets, though. Session saving is easy - if you have the session open, then it's Edit>Save. That's it!

[Exigeous]

Okay, thanks - but how do I save all the indvidual tracks for later? Say I'm working on a multitrack recording, I'm done for the day but need to add more tracks later, etc. how do I save this as a project like I would in, well, any other basic program like Premiere Pro, After Effects, etc? I feel like I'm missing something very basic as I only see the ability to save esentially a mix-down of what I'm working on as a Wave/MP3, etc. Do I need to export it or something like that to save the entire project?

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

No, you just do what I said - Edit>Save. When you opened the session you specified the path to it, and the session file will save both absolute and relative paths to files used in it - although ideally, you have them in the same folder as the session file - that makes them easier to share but it's not an absolute requirement. So the session file knows a) where your files are, and b) what parts of them you have used, and c) where in the session that was. And d) all of the rest of the session settings. You've already specified where the session is, so the only thing left is to Save it. Premiere Pro does the same thing, only they (unneccesarily) add the word 'Project'. Audition's essentially the same without any wasted words. You've opened a session - what else is it going to save?

Incidentally, if it thinks you haven't saved changes you've made to files, it will remind you and ask whether you want to. The reason for behaving like this is that you can make destructive alterations to a file during a session simply by double-clicking on a file, opening it in Waveform view and making a change to it. That would be destructive, and you have the choice of saving that or not. If you screw that up, then potentially your session could be compromised - it's better to save changes as you go as far as Waveform view is concerned, then you know where you are, and so does the session file.

You do also have an option to Save As - I think that this is pretty obvious, although it will ask you about copies of associated files, quite reasonably. 

But just to return to the session and add things to it later, that's all you need to do - no exporting or anything like that at all.

[Exigeous]

Okay I feel like we're saying two different things. When I go to file->save it wants to create a mixed down WAV or MP3, I do not want this - I want to save the session, project, document, whatever you want to call it so I can open it later just as it is right now and continue working on it. When I try to close it I just get asked again to save it to a WAV or MP3, destructively or not, but then when closed I have to reimport the track (if I saved the track separately), etc.

From now reading other threads it seems that MANY have been asking for this basic feature for years and it just doesn't exist in the way that essentially every other DAW out there has, Logic, Pro Tools or even Audacity. There are things I like about Audition but it's amazing to me it's this far behind all the other DAWs on the market, especially given Audacity is free.

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

That only applies in Waveform view, not Multitrack. In Multitrack, Save saves the session. You can't do this in Waveform view, because it's essentially destructive; if you don't save the file when you close it, you lose any changes. You do not get 'sessions' in Waveform view at all - they are only in Multitrack view.

People asking for anything different in Waveform view generally don't understand at all how Audition works, and what the implications are. And inevitably, that does not make their requests reasonable.

[Exigeous]

Hmm, while I appreciate your help saying "And inevitably, that does not make their requests reasonable." is something I find exceptionally arrogant on your part. Not sure why you get to decide what others want as a feature or find reasonable, as I understand it Logic, Pro Tools and even the free Audacity don't have anything like that limitation - you just save what you're working on, period. If I can work around this by doing multitrack "sessions/projects/documents/(insert name here)" fine, I can do that - but I don't understand how wanting to be able to save a single track so you can work on it later is in any way unreasonable. I generally use Audition for recording narration for my videos and only use it since it came with my subscription - I'm now working on a video where I'm applying a vintage radio effect. Being able to just close it and reopen right where I was, like basically every other piece of software I've ever used, seems more than reasonable to me.

So again I appreciate the time you've taken to reply to me but let's not judge what features other users want or how their workflow would be different than yours. Or maybe I'm wrong and it is your job at Adobe to judge what requests others make for features?

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

Actually, discussing feature requests with forum users is a part of what I do, yes. On frequent occasions, what people want to be able to do is already possible - they just haven't worked out how to do it. This is in part due to the pretty awful so-called help files, which often don't point out any of the shortcuts, or anything else that is more useful.

But I would say that the arrogance, incidentally, is to come along and just assume that everything you want is reasonable - because often it simply isn't. But I would agree that I should have included the word 'neccessarily' in the statement about reasonableness.

I'm still not entirely sure about what you are actually asking for here, incidentally. I've pointed out how you save rack effects, and doing this is essentially non-destructive in either view - if you want to modify them, you make the alterations and resave them. So if that isn't it, what is it?

[R Neil Haugen]

Steve, like moi, is not an Adobe staffer. He's a volunteer, and a very knowledgeable one too. I pick his brain anytime I'm stumped ... he's good.

The answer to your question is actually included in his posts up above. And yea, it can be a bit confusing at first, much of audio post work is for me also. Which is why I need Steve so much!

The Waveform and Multitrack options aren't just a different way to "view", they are entirely different processes. As a user, that's one of the first hurdles to get over with Audition. It's not a bug, it's definitely a feature, as it extends the capabilities dramatically.

But the choice of options has massive implications. Waveform is amazing for say being able to paint out noise or even phone calls in the background. But ... it is destructive. It is designed to overwrite the original media file unless you save/re-write to a new file.

The Multitrack is completely different, designed to be non-destructive, and therefore wants to know information about how to handle what you're doing.

Understand, when I first started out, I had things I thought the apps such as Premiere or Audition "should do" that to me were obvious, but ... more experienced users clearly felt that the obvious part was I lacked more experience and understanding.

After gaining some measure of both, they were correct. So I understand where you are approaching this from, and I understand where Steve is approaching this from.

Learn from him ... the guy is amazing in what hard-earned knowledge and skills he's willing to share with us all on his own dime!

Neil

[Harald34987983a4oq]

Hi Exigrous,
I know exactly what you mean. I wasn't recording in multisession, but in Waveform because I don't have muliple tracks, just voice. I saved and found out later that the file wasn't the session but "only" the final mixed down soundfile. Since I needed to do an extra sentence, I had great trouble recreating all the effects and EQs etc. I had done previously.

So what Steve is saying is: This can be avoided by always recording in multisession, correct?

Cheers, Harry

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

It's quite simple; we recommend Multitrack recording, whatever you are doing. There are a couple of major reasons for this, even if it's just one file you are recording. Multitrack recording is direct to file - Waveform recording goes to a temp file and isn't saved to your final version until you do the actual save. And many things can go wrong with that, as many have found. Also, if something does go wrong - like a power cut, or whatever, there's a good chance that you will be able to rescue what you've already recorded. In Waveform view, if you lose the temp file, you've lost the lot, with no direct recovery route.

Now if you do a recording in Multitrack, and add effects or whatever to it, then it's easy to add an extra bit because all the effects or whatever that you've used are all stored in the session file; you just add your extra part and either mix down or export the result again. And you can do drop-ins as well (if you are brave...)

Same thing goes for versioning - dead easy in Multitrack view, but a right pain in Waveform.

All things considered, it's a no-brainer.

[R Neil Haugen]

Excellent post, and information a lot of users don't know, but need to ...

[Harald34987983a4oq]

THX!

[Readone345134019muw]

Fell for the same "trap" and ended up with a mixed down version. I am gonna have to switch to multi track. 

[after_effectist]

Hey Ross - its not just you. 

Ive worked on tons of audio files in Audition and was always annoyed that its workflow was limited to a single session because say you want to just clean up or EQ a voice over,  that you could not save that session to come back to later. My workaround was to export a couple of safety versions and let it go.

This is the first time in a year of searching tutorials that anyone explained working on a single audio file is destructive - who would think to create a multitrack session to work on a single file??? 

While I appreciate the advice given in this thread, its a failure of UX/UI to not be able to save a single track as a "session" or "project" - the way most other apps do it.

[R Neil Haugen]

I've been there, perhaps? I was puzzled by Audition for quite a while myself. So I think you're caught up in nomenclature as opposed to function. As I was.

"Multitrack" isn't about having multiple audio tracks at all. It's only about the processing process used on the audio files.

When Steve and a couple others finally got that through my head,  and I actualy understood how Audition is designed, and why there are the two very different processes, I started using each one when appropriate. To the needs I needed to end up with.

It's like in Premiere when people refuse to use the multicam process for 'merging' video with separate audio, "because I DON'T HAVE MULTIPLE CAMERAS!!!!!"

So they insist on "merging" video to separate audio, then howl at all the problems inherent in using that process. But again, it's about how the process to join video and audio is ... processed. NOT that you actually have multiple cameras involved.