Problems with stuttering audio playback in multitrack session

[elkalamar]

hi

I'm having trouble with audio jitter in my multitrack session, which is also playing dynamically linked video from Premiere Pro. It's a 17min film, and there are quite a number of tracks (maybe 50) although almost no real-time effects at all in the session. (And of those 50 tracks no more than 6 are playing at once)

I'm using an imac on OSX 10.9.5, with plenty of free disc space, 3.4GHz quad-core i7 processor, AMD Radeon HD 6970M graphics, and audio through my MOTU 828mkii. I have 13Gb RAM assigned to Audition and Premiere Pro, Premiere is actually not even open, so basically 13Gb assigned to Audition.

I've upped the I/O buffer size to the max available, and cleaned my media cache.

So why is my audio jittering on playback? It's unfortunately impossible to edit like this.

It seems to me I'm not asking Audition to do a great deal other than mix 3 or 4 tracks together at any one time, and simultaneously playback the dynamically linked video. In fact, when I work in Premiere I can have a huge amount more going on without any jitter in video or audio playback. I should clarify in my explanation that it is only the audio playback that stutters, not the video which plays fine in the video window.

Adobe CC2015, Audition 8.1.0.162

Thanks

Duncan

[ryclark]

What format is the video track? Some compressed video formats can take a lot of CPU power to decode. Is your Audition session at the correct sample rate of 48kHz to match the normal audio for video sample rate?

Also I notice that you are using a rather old version of Audition. We are now up to 10.0.2.27, CC 2017.0.2.

[elkalamar]

Hi,

Thanks for your response.

The Audition multitrack session is 48k. It's a dynamically linked session from Premiere Pro. The video timeline in Premiere Pro is 1080p and the material is all Pro Res 422. I can't see that being the problem anyway, as I mentioned in Premiere Pro I can be working with much more going on without any kind of dropout in the audio or video e.g Pro Res 4444 files, LUTS and various effects, and plenty of audio tracks.

I know the version I'm using is not the most recent, but I'm not interested in changing versions mid-project to be honest it's much too risky (though I will do once this project is complete)

[Stefan Gruenwedel]

elkalamar  wrote

I know the version I'm using is not the most recent, but I'm not interested in changing versions mid-project to be honest it's much too risky (though I will do once this project is complete)

By the way, you can install an update alongside your current version. See: Update Creative Cloud apps. Pay attention to: "By default, when you install a new Creative Cloud 2017 app, it will remove the previous versions of the app on your computer. If you want to keep your previous versions installed, click Advanced Options and deselect the Remove old versions checkbox in the update confirmation dialog box."

[Bob_Howes]

One thing you didn't mention is what, if any, effects you're using in Audition.   Some of these look simple but can use up an awful lot of computer resources.  An easy way around this is to pre-render and tracks you're not actually working on--you do this with the lightning bolt symbol at the bottom or the effects rack.  You can still go back and change things after pre-rendering but is can free up a lot of computer resources.

[elkalamar]

Thank you - that's useful information, I didn't know about the pre-render track option and I had wondered why such a feature would be missing! I didn't notice the lightening bolt sign so that's super good to know.

In answer to the question, I have very few effects active on the session - mainly Waves EQ if anything but nothing desparately CPU intensive in any case. So I'm fairly sure that shouldn't be the issue as I've worked with more effects in the past, both in Audition and for many years in Logic Pro, and its never been an issue for me even on a less powerful machine. (I tend to render down tracks if I have to do something effects intensive).

thanks again

[elkalamar]

Thanks good to know

[elkalamar]

hi Stefan,

i'm checking this out at present (not to solve the issue on this thread, but because my Premiere Pro version doesn't allow me to make open captions subtitles) - I cannot find "Advanced Options" in my Creative Cloud, where do I find this? thanks

[Stefan Gruenwedel]

You have to see the Update button for this to work. Try try this for myself, I first installed Adobe InDesign CC (2014), knowing that I'd see that an update was available:

When I click the button, I see that I have some options:

Here's what I see when I click Advanced Options:

Hope this helps! Remember, I forced this particular update process by installing an older version from the beginning. In the case of an a recent version, like the 2017 release, the Update button just installs the latest update on top of the previous (recent) version. (It would help if there were a clearer distinction at this level between an Update button and an Upgrade button. Sounds like a feature request!)

[elkalamar]

hi Stefan,

thanks for this. I have previously done exactly what you've done here, as I have both CC2014 and CC2015 installed on my machine, so I have been through this process succesfully also. Unfortunately it doesn't solve it for me in this instance, with the versions I'm upgrading from.

I'm working with Adobe Premiere Pro CC2015.2 (build 9.2.0) and Adobe Audition CC2015.1 (build 8.1.0.162) and wanted to update - actually because of a feature in Premiere Pro which doesn't exist in the version I'm using - but nonetheless if I could achieve an update whilst keeping my existing versions of PP and Audition it would be a risk free way of testing if I can work in Audition without the stuttering audio and dropped samples which is really hampering my work.

I DO see the update buttons (I have the option to update Premiere Pro to PPCC2015.3, and Audition to CC2015.2 - which is a bit confusing) but when I click on them the software starts installing without offering me the dialogue box. Hence I appear to have no option to keep my current (working) versions, since the I can't access the advanced options.

ps I did start a different thread on this issue but have no idea how to link you to that - sorry!

[Stefan Gruenwedel]

That's the problem with the CC updater: It doesn't distinguish between "major releases" and "interim updates." I would log a feature enhancement request and perhaps try Customer Care to see how you can keep Pr CC 2015.2 while installing Pr CC 2015.3 alongside it. I don't think it's possible. The only workaround would be to install Pr CC 2015.3 on some kind of virtual drive or external drive.

Btw, you can just link to that other forum thread here and people will find their way there.

[elkalamar]

thanks Stefan - I will follow your advice on that (feature enhancement request). it's quite unclear at present!

link to other thread "Updating of Premiere Pro 2015 + Audition" here

Updating of Premiere Pro CC2015 + Audition

[elkalamar]

I have tried two things and at the moment I'm no longer getting the stuttering audio (though I fear for it coming back, not knowing exactly what the cause is).

1. I deleted some pretty large cache files which had built up with Adobe After Effects. This freed up a fair amount of space on my primary drive (the 400Gb solid state drive on which I have my Adobe software installed). I did have over 20% free on this drive prior to deleting the cache files, some I'm not sure it should effect the issue, nonetheless it's a step I took just in case.

2. Sometime I have both Premiere Pro and Audition open at the same time. At the time I was last experiencing the jittery audio I definitely only had Audition open, since I didn't need to change anything in the Premiere Pro timeline.

However I just spent the past hour editing in the same Audition multitrack session, with Premiere Pro also open. During that hour I had no problems with audio playback.

Can it be that Premiere Pro also needs to be open, even if I'm not doing anything with it?

[elkalamar]

Any of the staff no anything about this?:

"2. Sometime I have both Premiere Pro and Audition open at the same time. At the time I was last experiencing the jittery audio I definitely only had Audition open, since I didn't need to change anything in the Premiere Pro timeline.

However I just spent the past hour editing in the same Audition multitrack session, with Premiere Pro also open. During that hour I had no problems with audio playback.

Can it be that Premiere Pro also needs to be open, even if I'm not doing anything with it?"

Excuse me quoting myself but I still don't have a solution on this. My instinct would have been to have Audition open only, so as not to take up RAM holding Premiere Pro open in the background (for the same reason I don't tend to have internet browsers, word documents etc open whilst editing if I can avoid it). Does Premiere Pro being open or not make any difference at all to how Audition handles the dynamically linked video?

[elkalamar]

ps I'm not sure why there is a label on the post that says "assumed answered" because it's it not.

[Stefan Gruenwedel]

When you're working on an Audition session with Dynamic Link video streaming, Premiere Pro does not need to be active at the time but it does need to be installed. I asked the Audition product manager about your situation and he says the video might be streaming and displaying at full resolution and framerate, but Audition doesn’t support GPU acceleration for the video display, so that could be a culprit. Right-clicking in the video panel and choosing a lower playback resolution could help significantly.

[elkalamar]

hi Stefan - thanks v much for this. I didn't know that video playback resolution could be altered (I'm not sure why that's not also available in the preferences which is the obviously place to look).

I have tried this now. One observation is that at any other resolution than full, the image quality is appalling (I mean it is absolutely shocking). Even at half resolution. And this is strange because the original resolution is 1920 x 1080, so at half or even quarter resolution the picture should look good (on a basis of resolution) - considering the size of the video window (see below)

This screengrab doesn't show the poor quality of the video by the way, as the video isn't playing back at the time of the screengrab.

I'm still getting dropped samples, even and 1/8 resolution video playback. But audio playback seems less stuttered (though it's still not right). I do currently have a few plug-ins inserted on tracks (I had virtually no plug-ins on this session at the time I originally wrote this post however) but they are all pre-rendered.

So I'm starting to get the feeling that this comes down the Audition's ability to handle the video stream (seeing how poorly it deals with lowering the playback resolution is a clue?). The original footage on the Premiere Pro timeline is Apple Pro Res 422 1080p 25fps i.e. pretty standard, and Premiere Pro handles this with no problems whatsoever on my machine.

If the case is that Audition's to display common codecs at common resolutions results in jittery audio playback, this to me totally calls into question the utility of dynamically linked video (and hence the reason I'm using Creative Cloud to begin with if I'm honest). I hope I'm not jumping the gun here but if this is indeed the problem I think Adobe needs to be transparent and straight up about what video codecs and resolutions Audition can safely deal with when dynamic linking.

"When you're working on an Audition session with Dynamic Link video streaming, Premiere Pro does not need to be active at the time but it does need to be installed."

Thanks for an answer on this too. All v helpful

[ryclark]

I believe that the video playback engine in Audition has considerable revisions done in the last few versions. Since you are running the much older CC 2015 version that may have been considerable improvements in video playback since 2015.

Also as far as keeping older installed versions of Adobe software working when doing an update to a new version/release I have found that you can probably hang on to your older version if you go in and change the name of the Adobe installation folder. So, for instance, if you are using CC 2015.1 and you want to update to 2015.2 rename Audition CC 2015.1 to Audition CC 2015old. Then the update shouldn't overwrite the older version and you should be able to still use it. I have virtually all versions of Audition installed from way back for test purposes and they all still work. However you may find that the CC app requires you to deactivate a version if it thinks that you have too many running at once.

[elkalamar]

Has nobody else on here had any experience of this?

[elkalamar]

"Also as far as keeping older installed versions of Adobe software working when doing an update to a new version/release I have found that you can probably hang on to your older version if you go in and change the name of the Adobe installation folder. So, for instance, if you are using CC 2015.1 and you want to update to 2015.2 rename Audition CC 2015.1 to Audition CC 2015old. Then the update shouldn't overwrite the older version and you should be able to still use it. I have virtually all versions of Audition installed from way back for test purposes and they all still work. However you may find that the CC app requires you to deactivate a version if it thinks that you have too many running at once."

Thanks this is useful to know.

"I believe that the video playback engine in Audition has considerable revisions done in the last few versions. Since you are running the much older CC 2015 version that may have been considerable improvements in video playback since 2015."

I hope that's the case. Nonetheless I'm working with a version of Audition which is only a year old, and the fact is if dynamic link can't deal with ProRes 422 at 1080p which has been around for years, then the software is just not doing what it claims to do. Imagine how much worse the problem becomes if I'm working with multiple codecs on my Premiere Pro timeline!! (which Premiere Pro now handles very well and is one of it's advantages over the Final Cut 7 that everyone used to love so much).

[ryclark]

CC 2015 is nearer two years old now. And as I mentioned I believe that the video engine in Audition has since progressed a lot to be very similar (if not the same) as that in Premiere in order to facilitate the better integration between the two programs. So I would have thought the latest versions should be a lot better. But we would need one of the developers to confirm that this is the case.

[elkalamar]

The version I'm working in was released in November 2015 which is not two years ago. But it's irrelevant - we've been working with 1080p ProRes 422 for years so a 2015 release of Audition with dynamic link between Premiere Pro and Audition should be able to deal with this. I hope you're right, but I don't see any reason to assume that's the case.

[_durin_]

When streaming video via Dynamic Link, Audition is essentially handed frames from a background Premiere Pro process, so there should be almost no difference in rendering speed.  And while I might expect performance degradation with higher resolution formats, 1080p shouldn't be causing significant problems by itself.

One quick test would be to close the Video panel and start playback.  Do the dropouts and stuttering continue to occur at the same rate?  If so, the video stream may be a red herring.  Then we can take a look at other factors that might be causing performance problems and solutions for those.  Looking at your session screenshot, while there are a lot of individual tracks, there's not that much content.

[elkalamar]

hi Durin

interesting...

It seems to me that as I lower the playback resolution of the video window in Audition, I get smoother playback. But it's still not at all what I would expect, and without fail within a few seconds I see dropped samples (even at 1/8 resolution). I'm still get dropped samples with the video window closed, but the software is noticeably more responsive.

Today I have been migrating the dynamically linked multitrack session to a new session - the primary reason being I need to work on a 5.1 mix now that the sound edit is complete. Since my Premiere Pro timelines have stereo masters, the Audition sessions created when I send from Premiere are also stereo, so I've created a new multitrack session in Audition with a 5.1 master to do my surround mix, and I've exported an H.264 from my original (Pro Res 422) timeline in Premiere. I'm currently populating the session with the audio exported from my stereo session (the dynamically linked session I did the edit in) and I'm up to 60-odd tracks with no dropped samples.

- I'm keeping an eye on this as I add more tracks, automation, and ultimately some mastering effects (plug-ins), so we'll see.

"Looking at your session screenshot, while there are a lot of individual tracks, there's not that much content."

Exactly. Lots of tracks, but rarely more than 6 at any one time in that session. I have some plug-ins on some tracks now, and some are a little CPU intensive but the tracks are all pre-rendered. However the problems started before I even had those plug-ins in place, and weirdly even muting tracks that did have plug-ins (and I thought could have been the problem) didn't reduce the jittering audio playback.

Honestly I've worked both in Audition and in Logic Pro many, many times with more tracks and more plug-ins than this (and on slower machines) before having problems with audio playback. It doesn't seem to me I'm asking the software to do an awful lot.