How to set up Stereo upmixing to 5.1 software in audition

[Rick0725]

Please help setting up a stereo up mixing VST plugin Penteo composer 5 in Audition. 2 channel stereo to 6 discrete channels.

I saw overviews all over the internet but not specific setup instructions. Will it even work as a plugin in ?.

Thanks

Rick

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

The makers of this plugin have provided absolutely no idea of how to route it - not helpful. In the top right-hand corner of all plugins when run in an Audition carrier is a little symbol with a line joining a source to one of three dots (next to the i button) and clicking on this will give you the routing options. The issue is that you are having to start with a stereo file and end up with a multi-channel one, and I'm not sure how that will work exactly, as I've only ever done it the other way around - converted B format to stereo. I will check to see if it's possible to output a surround file from that plugin (potentially it can) and that might give a bit of a clue as to what you'll need to do...

[Rick0725]

This is the response I got from the company.

Those settings are specific to your VST host not the plugin  - if you look up your DAW host
settings, that should give you the information you need.

I am guessing that the software outputs 6 mono files

Rick

[SteveG_AudioMasters_]

Rick0725  wrote

This is the response I got from the company.

Those settings are specific to your VST host not the plugin  - if you look up your DAW host
settings, that should give you the information you need.

I am guessing that the software outputs 6 mono files

Rick

I suspect that this is true. I loaded up the aforementioned plugin (which accepts 4 channels in, but up to 7 out) and discovered that as it stands, you only get the same number of output channels available as input channels. Whilst that's fine for me, I haven't yet discovered a way around it for more output channels other than to put the input channels in a 7-channel 'container' - which you can actually do quite easily with Audition - and then, using the routing, send the outputs back to what should then be 7 available channels. If I get a chance, I'll try that later. Incidentally, I'm doing this in Waveform view, and that in itself will cause monitoring difficulties. I don't know whether any options in Multitrack view will make it any better - possibly they might, but inevitably this will also start with a stereo file in a couple of channels of whatever format you want out of it. But at least that way, the monitoring might work!

You may have to experiment a bit, I'm afraid.

[Rick0725]

my sound card will only in/out 2 channels so would need to purchase am interface. would the Focusrite Scarlette 18i20 be ok or would you suggest another to use for ins and output monitor to the 6 speakes.

Also how would you map 2 stereo channels to the individual surround channels

L to Left

R to Right

? to center

? to LFE

? to LS

? to RS

then after that I am not comfortable with set up multi track set up and need help in that setup.

Rick

[ryclark]

Any USB interface with six discrete audio line outputs will allow you to monitor 5.1 surround (with suitable speaker set up of course. Certainly the Focusrite 18i20 will do the job. But beware to check the channel out count. For instance the Focusrite 6i6 would appear on the face of it to be highly suitable for surround monitoring. But if you look at the specs only four of it's outputs are actually analogue line outputs. The other two are digital SPDIF only.

You can't and wouldn't map two channel stereo audio to anything but the Left and Right front outputs. That is why you need an upmixing plugin to generate the other four audio sources. Or you start afresh with an Audition 5.1 channel session where you can mix and use the surround panning to direct your outputs. You can, of course, generate an LFE signal by just applying and low pass filter to your audio to only send frequencies lower than around 125Hz to that output. But that is not what it is really for. Also in the olden days when there weren't very many true surround recordings available pseudo surround signals were made by adding reverb to the stereo signals and sending it only to the rear channels. 

However any foray into 5.1 surround sound does need to have a suitable speaker set up for monitoring what you are doing.

[Rick0725]

What would you use for the up mixing plugin. I thought the pentio is that?

the 18i20 has 8 outs 2 for monitors 6 for others

I have 5 jbl 5 studio monitors plus sub

[ryclark]

Correct, but the Pentio plugin has to be compatible with Audition and how Audition routes the ins and outs to/from VST plugins. But I would presume that in order for it to work you would have to be working in 5.1 Audition Multitrack session anyway.

On a Focusrite 18i20 I would normally use the usual two monitor outputs for the main L/R speakers and four others for the Center, LFE and Surround channels. the only reason to use the six outputs for surround separate from the two monitor outs would be if you have a different set of front speakers for when you are working stereo only.

[Rick0725]

Just had the Focusrite 18i20 delivered. Please review and advise/finalize the input and output settings.

input ??? (for 5.1)

1 L

2 R

3 C

4 LFE

5 LS

6 RS

Output

want to use two 8" JBL monitors to monitor stereo L and R only  and a separate system for monitoring the 5.1 surround. Outputs 3-10 from the 18i20 to the preamp into multichannel inputs to the surround sound system (which has more power and better speakers to get the volume I need). or will audition not play well this way and use 3 more 8" studio monitors plus sub. On the 18i20 can mute the monitors when playing back 5.1 for example

1 stereo monitor

2 stereo monitor

3 L

4 R

5 C

6 LFE

9 LS

10 RS

the Focus rite manual skips  7-8 for 5.1. should I use the 7-8 instead?

thanks rick

[ryclark]

That looks pretty standard for setting up surround recording and playback in Audition. Make sure that your Audio Channel Mapping reflects this set up in Audition's preferences.

[Rick0725]

I can not get the Penteo plugin to work in audition with the 18i20. The plugin is only mapping 2 channels. I can not figure it out. any suggestions?

[Rick0725]

Think I got the plugin to work in a 5.1 multitrack session.

Track 1 is the stereo track. Added the plugin to the master track and exported 5.1. mapped fine. pretty slick.

now the next challenge is to monitor the 6 channels. The multichannel input attempt did not work. no sound came out. could I have done something wrong in the amp set up. the multi channel in the amp is pcm .

[ryclark]

How are you getting the signal from the PC via the 18i20 to your multichannel amp? As mentioned above getting the Audio Channel Mapping set up correctly for your Master channel output is critical.

[Rick0725]

I contacted Focusrite support to Confirm setup in their control software. Also, the multichannel processing in the receiver requires PCM audio for processing as with connecting the multichannel outputs from a DVD play. Therefore may not even work with the 18i20 since it is  line level output?

[ryclark]

In order for PCM 5.1 to work the audio has to be dolby or DTS encoded. Audition and most similar DAWs only provide discrete channel outputs via the audio interface analogue line level outputs. Thus you need a surround amp that can accept six analogue inputs, usually via RCA phono sockets or active monitoring speakers with amps built in in order to monitor a surround mix.

[Rick0725]

so to confirm. the signal to the amp needs to be already dolby or dts encoded for it to work. Therefore outputting what is coming out of the DAW to monitor will not work connected to the surround amp. I would will need to add 3 matching powered studio monitors plus a sub. I have a few velodyne powered subs with line input. will that work. And what do I use for the test signal to calibrate levels to the speakers out of the DAW.

[ryclark]

Rick0725  wrote

Therefore outputting what is coming out of the DAW to monitor will not work connected to the surround amp.

Unless the surround amp has discrete 6 analogue inputs.

Rick0725  wrote

And what do I use for the test signal to calibrate levels to the speakers out of the DAW.

Pink noise and a sound level meter.

Rick0725  wrote

I have a few velodyne powered subs with line input. will that work.

One of those would work for the LFE. But you would need normal full range matching speakers for the centre and surround speakers to be similar to your main stereo pair.

[Rick0725 · Accepted solution]

Final word.

The studio set up is complete. 5 JBL studio monitors, Sub, Focusrite 18i20 audio interface, software, Dolby encoder, etc.

Penteo works in audition CC 2018. Create a simple 5.1  multitrack session. Track 1 is the stereo audio and the Penteo plug in is added as an effect on the master. Tweak the penteo settings and export the 5.1 multitrack mixdown. Scan the 5.1 audio, make volume adjustments if necessary to the individual channels, determine the Dialogue Normalization setting, encode the dolby in media encoder with surcode, listen to the outcome, make corrections and encode again if necessary, and done.

[ryclark]

Glad you have got it all sorted and are successfully producing 5.1 audio.