Thumbnails continually rebuilding

[ycardozo]

I got an update for ACR (CS6) today and installed it. Suddenly, EVERY time I open Bridge or return to it from another page, it starts thumbnailing my images from scratch. We're talking hundreds of images in this folder. This is new. It did not do this yesterday. What is going on and how do I fix it.  If I leave bridge (even if it's still open) and I go back to Bridge, it starts doing the thumbnail extractions all over again and THEN starts on the full size extractions all over again. The result is that all of Photoshop has slowed to a crawl. This is the second time in a month that an update has caused new problems that did not exist before. It's beyond frustrating.

that's cute. I just sat through 10 minutes of full size extractions counting down. it got to zero and STARTED AGAIN. Okay, guys, what's going on? I have 50 gb of images from Asia I need to process. I truly don't have time for this. And the thumbnail extractions just started over again.

Message title was edited by: Brett N

[Noel Carboni]

Do you see anything in the System event log.

-Noel

[Hudechrome]

Quite a bit! Which is why I want to switch to the SSD for OS and programs.

I'll e-mail you with some questions.

Thanks!

[Yammer]

FYI Camera Raw 8.2 RC has just been put on the Labs website. No mention of fixing the regeneration bugs. It looks like they've been concentrating on the new CC features instead. I'll have a bash in a while, but I'm not optimistic.

http://labs.adobe.com/

[Yammer]

... I'll save you the trouble of checking. It's not fixed.

[ycardozo]

I live with it but this is beyond frustrating. And to add a bit of confusion, I've discovered if the folder (at least on my machine) has a handful of tiffs along with the raws that have xmp files, the regen doesn't happen. As for the regen, itself, it's inconsistent now. Sometimes a single image, sometimes half of the total. But at least when it gets to zero, it stops...until I go out of the folder and then return. I am on raw 8.1 with photoshop cc.

[Hudechrome]

This is a very long thread!

How did we get to ACR as being the culprit in a Bridge problem?

[Robert_Shomler]

Because acr was the trigger (beginning with acr 7.3).  The problem appeared in bridge after acr update from 7.2 to 7.3.  Reverting to acr 7.2 avoided the problem.

[Hudechrome]

Ok, I understand that. But I still want to know is it Bridge (which has always worked correctly here) or ACR and how do we know for sure?

Seems like the old back and forth between Adobe and MS as to who owns the problem.

I have a perfectly operational scanner from Epson which won't run with Epson drivers when I switched to Win 7. So is it Win 7 or Epson? (Rhetorical question because Epson owned up to the fact they were not gonna make new drivers, but you get the point).

My SWAG here is it's similar in that ACR may need to have some tweak that addresses non-functionality in certain HW/SW configurations.

Hmmm, or is it Bridge that needs the tweak?

Just don't f**k with my setup if/when it is solved, please!

[Omke_Oudeman]

Ok, I understand that. But I still want to know is it Bridge (which has always worked correctly here) or ACR and how do we know for sure?

Let me put it this way, I'm on a Mac, use only basic ACR settings (never crop) and don't know from own experience what this thread is about because it doesn't happen on my system. I did follow most of it but due to the length also forgot most of it. First I thought it was Windows related but I believe some Mac users also have this problem.

Knowing this and trying to recall I find the post (Yammer I believe?) about certain ACR settings being the culprit the most logical explanation, especially since it seems to occur after a certain update.

Seems like the old back and forth between Adobe and MS as to who owns the problem.

Since it also seem to happen on Mac this can be ruled out

I have a perfectly operational scanner from Epson which won't run with Epson drivers when I switched to Win 7. So is it Win 7 or Epson? (Rhetorical question because Epson owned up to the fact they were not gonna make new drivers, but you get the point).

This is exactly one of the two reasons I banned Epson from my office, they simply refuse to update software for apparatus older then 3 months (that is bit over the top but I also want you to get the point…)

Off Topic but the other reason: I once owned an Epson Image tank (back in the days gold was cheaper then CF cards). It was 10 GB and new it cost 450 euro. I had a minor incident (design flaw of a small piece getting loose and preventing CF cards to read due to a few pins that where bended.) Sended it for repair (which Epson had outsourced) and they told me it would cost 600 euro to repair! Now I don't need to make a point anymore, do I???

My SWAG here is it's similar in that ACR may need to have some tweak that addresses non-functionality in certain HW/SW configurations.

I'm afraid his is a bit to much mystery abbreviation for a simple Mac user as I am…

Hmmm, or is it Bridge that needs the tweak?

My bets are on ACR

Just don't f**k with my setup if/when it is solved, please!

My simple Mac mind seems being able to fill in the asterisks and I think I agree with you on this one.

[Hudechrome]

SWAG...Scientific Wild *ssed Guess!

I would also ban Epson except the printers are so damn good!

[Yammer]

Hudechrome wrote:

This is a very long thread!

How did we get to ACR as being the culprit in a Bridge problem?

Too much verbosity, over-enthusiastic denial, repetition and off-topic discussion. It's hard to actually find the facts here. Unfortunately, the forum software doesn't let anyone delete old posts. I'm a former tech support guy; this thread is a disgrace.

I'd need to do more testing, but I think that the original bug was introduced with Lens Corrections in Camera Raw 6.1 CS5. I performed my rotate and crop scenario again a couple of days ago with ACR 8.2RC, and it didn't work—until I turned on lens distortion correction. It seems that, once the frame has a curved edge, and you attempt to crop the maximum area, all bets are off. It seems to be a maths problem, so you might need a few attempts before triggering the bug.

Why this should affect Bridge, I don't know. Presumably, Bridge somehow needs to check if a file needs a new preview, and this must use information from Camera Raw, which is being incorrectly reported. (see below)

I think there were only a few of us reporting this. That is, until Camera Raw 7.3 was released, when the ACR team fixed a TIFF display bug in Bridge. I have been unable to recreate the conditions which trigger the regenerations, but I see them myself. It seems to create a lot more regenerations than the crop bug, but it's not crop-related, like in 6.1+, although the crop bug still exists.

I have read reports from both Windows and Mac users, but that was *before* two separate bugs were identified, so it's unclear if either condition is platform specific.

In Adobe staffer Steve G's own words:

"From the details given so far, somehow the Bridge cache for some specific aspect of camera raw files appears to be getting invalidated after it's generated. I've been away to long from the working end of Bridge caching, but hope to get this sorted out."

and

"Yammer case (ACR crop bounds set) is a different trigger than Yvette's, but they may point to the same underlying cause. The ACR team is lookng into Yammer's crop bounds and I'm going to make sure they are aware that Yvette's case may not be the same thing, but it would be good to investigate them at the same time.

"BTW, I have tried Yvette's case using Bridge CC and ACR 8.1 and it still exists. With Yvette's files, I have not been able to trigger the status message issue on OSX, just on Win."

[Hudechrome]

Thanks for the summary.I have only been following it from an informational pov as I cannot even force any such failures. Since the problem has appeared on both platforms, the Design of Experiment I would want to do is one that generates the problem on either/or platforms.

So far as Lens Corrections, I use DxO for all my lens/sensor corrections. So for a corrected frame, I have the linear dng of DxO and the original .nef. I can open both simultaneously and apply common corrections but I haven't tried the crop rotate in ACR on either. I reserve crop for PS. One reason is that the working space in PS is much more to my liking, so I do important work there when the unique qualities of ACR are not needed.

That being said, I don't see any evidence that Bridge is ruled out, but then I'm not doing the troubleshoot.

One question which comes to mind is whether the acquisition of the files from the card has any influence, that is, how do they get uploaded? Here, I use a rather ancient card reader, the default is to use Bridge to upload (or DL, what ever!). There may be some metadata corruption involved in this part of the. process. I have one card which has a micro USB plug-in and I find that to be problematic. In turn, that brigs up a question of the metadata itself from the camera. I have a D80, D90, and D7100. All behave correctly in the acquisition, uploading and behavior in ACR/Bridge.

[Yammer]

Hudechrome wrote:

One question which comes to mind is whether the acquisition of the files from the card has any influence, that is, how do they get uploaded? Here, I use a rather ancient card reader, the default is to use Bridge to upload (or DL, what ever!). There may be some metadata corruption involved in this part of the. process. I have one card which has a micro USB plug-in and I find that to be problematic. In turn, that brigs up a question of the metadata itself from the camera. I have a D80, D90, and D7100. All behave correctly in the acquisition, uploading and behavior in ACR/Bridge.

I upload using the Bridge uploader. I can't speak for anyone else.

Certainly, the upload method is irrelevant to the crop bug, as I can now recreate it 100% reliably. The newer 7.3+ bug I cannot fathom, although it seems to occur once the image has some form of XMP, which I suppose could be added during ingestion with metadata templates.

[Hudechrome]

'It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are       infinitely the most important.'

-  Sherlock Holmes

[Yammer]

SG... wrote:

Yammer case (ACR crop bounds set) is a different trigger than Yvette's, but they may point to the same underlying cause. The ACR team is lookng into Yammer's crop bounds and I'm going to make sure they are aware that Yvette's case may not be the same thing, but it would be good to investigate them at the same time.

Steve,

Two months have passed, so I thought I'd ask... Any progress?

[SG...]

Hi,

Sorry I let this languish a bit.

The bug concerning the crop bounds has been fixed. The fix didn't make it into the 8.2 RC public release, however. It will hopefully be in the final 8.2 shipping update.

I haven't tried Yvette's case specifically against the fixed plug-in. Yvette has mentioned that she's seeing much less of the regenration problem over the last couple months, but I have no solid explanation as to why that would be.

regards,

steve

[ycardozo]

thanks for bringing us up to date, steve.

I can't begin to answer why but at the moment, the regeneration problem is virtually gone. I get maybe a single regeneration. Period. For a while, it made a difference if there were tif images among the group in the folder...the more tiffs, the less regeneration. But I just came back from Micronesia and have metadata with all of my raw images and no tifs in the mix and.... no regeneration beyond that stray one every once in a while. in other words, a single image will regenerate, though I have 450 raw images in the folder. I am on Win7 (pc), 64 bit. I do my work on my SSD drive but I am seeing the same result among my older images stored on my non SSD (internal) drive. I also am on single app Photoshop CC and I am up to date, meaning I now have raw 8.1.

My latest problem involved repeatedly being locked out of photoshop because adobe (online) claimed my 'trial version' had expired even tho i never downloaded the trial version, my account has been billed religiously each month and my registration is up to date. That happened just before leaving town and then again, twice in a week about three weeks ago. Since then, after many talks with adobe, it has not occurred again. I was told the problem was definitely on adobe's end but it took a few tries to  fix it. At least, I hope it's fixed.

Glad to hear the other problem is fixed.

[Yammer]

SG... wrote:

The bug concerning the crop bounds has been fixed. The fix didn't make it into the 8.2 RC public release, however. It will hopefully be in the final 8.2 shipping update.

Great news! Let's hope so.

[Yammer]

Good news: Camera Raw 8.2 out now.

"Bug fix: Bridge always recomputed cropped image thumbnails when lens profile corrections are enabled rather than when necessary."

Confirmed fixed.

Bad news: 7.3+ regeneration bug still present

[Yammer]

Yammer wrote:

Bad news: 7.3+ regeneration bug still present

... or not. Now I'm not sure.

It seems that, if I clear the existing cached files, the regeneration stops after the first rebuild. Watch this space.

[ycardozo]

In answer to Yammer who wrote 7.3 bug still present....apparently it is. But not consistently for me. Sometimes half of a folder will regenerate (say 200 of 400), sometimes, like this morning...right now, it's only four or five of the 400. Go figure......

Would someone please refresh me on how to capture a portion of the previous message. I've tried clicking on everything I see but can't seem to do it. I know I could at one time.

[SG...]

Hi Yvette,

If you mean how to quote from the post you're replying to, then look for the icon top, center-left, next to the smiley icon.

regards,

steve

[ycardozo]

Well, there it is. I was looking in the main forum messages...all over. Didn't even think to look in the message box. And, surely as I once knew this, I will undoubtedly forget it again. Oh well. Thks as always steve

SG... wrote:

Hi Yvette,

If you mean how to quote from the post you're replying to, then look for the icon top, center-left, next to the smiley icon.

regards,

steve

[ycardozo]

Bridge is behaving itself this morning. It's holding at only 5 regenerations. I'm thinking about downloading LR for CC. But why tempt fate? Think I will wait a day or two on that.

[Yammer]

Hi, Steve.

The "touching crop with lens correction" bug has definitely been fixed in Camera Raw 8.2. This is great news.

I was using 8.2 for a few days, but I've gone back to 7.2 again, because of the "mystery 7.3+" bug. Unfortunately, I am still unable to reproduce the fault reliably.

I had one folder with 75% repeat extractions. I duplicated it, and the duplicate folder had no repeat extractions.

I have noticed that the number of repeat extractions in a folder changes, if you purge and rebuild the cache for that folder.

Can you tell us if there has been any progress on this issue, or are you just as stumped as we are?