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Thumbnails continually rebuilding

Community Beginner ,
Dec 13, 2012 Dec 13, 2012

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I got an update for ACR (CS6) today and installed it. Suddenly, EVERY time I open Bridge or return to it from another page, it starts thumbnailing my images from scratch. We're talking hundreds of images in this folder. This is new. It did not do this yesterday. What is going on and how do I fix it.  If I leave bridge (even if it's still open) and I go back to Bridge, it starts doing the thumbnail extractions all over again and THEN starts on the full size extractions all over again. The result is that all of Photoshop has slowed to a crawl. This is the second time in a month that an update has caused new problems that did not exist before. It's beyond frustrating.

that's cute. I just sat through 10 minutes of full size extractions counting down. it got to zero and STARTED AGAIN. Okay, guys, what's going on? I have 50 gb of images from Asia I need to process. I truly don't have time for this. And the thumbnail extractions just started over again.

Message title was edited by: Brett N

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Advocate ,
Apr 19, 2013 Apr 19, 2013

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Yammer P wrote:

I'm sure I read that it happens with DNG too.

Yes, I've seen it with dng files in a December test - same conditions: acr updates plus other added metadata.

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People's Champ ,
Apr 19, 2013 Apr 19, 2013

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I'm sure I read that it happens with DNG too.

I just glanced at the forum thread itself but to my shock it shows to contain already 8 pages so I'm not contradicting you in this one…

But then again, to me it seemed related to the XMP sidecar files and DNG don't have them and the info is like other filetypes just written in the files itself instead of that 'dreadful' piece of info trying to keep up speed with it's beholder.

Conclusion, if it is not XMP side car files related then it seems Windows related, if so then you know what to do next….

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Mentor ,
Apr 20, 2013 Apr 20, 2013

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Omke Oudeman wrote:

Conclusion, if it is not XMP side car files related then it seems Windows related, if so then you know what to do next….

Well, I'm still waiting for this rather busy Adobe engineer to push this forwards, and come back to us with a progress report, although I assume he's not on the Bridge team, as they can't be very busy, what with there only being a few updates over the last five years.

Only problem with moving to Mac is I'd have to spend a fortune, relearn how to use a computer, replace all my applications with Mac versions, and spend lots of time doing all this—although I could use the time to grow a pony tail.

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People's Champ ,
Apr 20, 2013 Apr 20, 2013

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Only problem with moving to Mac is I'd have to spend a fortune, relearn how to use a computer, replace all my applications with Mac versions,

Here I can contradict you (albeit not about fortune for a new Mac - a second hand Mac is also an option- , but good stuff needs to be paid for…), with your specialized knowledge about Windows the Mac should be a piece of cake and very easy to use for you.

The Adobe creative cloud is again coming to the rescue here, membership gives you the option to use it on both platforms. For instance a PC at work and a Mac at home is possible

and spend lots of time doing all this—although I could use the time to grow a pony tail.

The time you need to get familiar with the Mac is not even enough to grow a faint start of a beard so you have to find some other reasons (uninstall and dismantle your Windows machine perhaps…) to reach the length of what might be called a pony tail

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Engaged ,
Apr 20, 2013 Apr 20, 2013

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The ol' platform wars starting up!

Actually, it's easier changing over to a Mac than moving from a Nikon D90 to the 7100.

Really!

Has Adobe even replicated it?  I'll bet that the assigned Bridge engineer is either a newbie or assigned only part time to Bridge. Other fish to fry and all that! I haven't been able to replicate it here.

What's missing is a solid log file to interpret the specific device's operations.

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People's Champ ,
Apr 20, 2013 Apr 20, 2013

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I'll bet that the assigned Bridge engineer is either a newbie or assigned only part time to Bridge.

If you mean SG on this forum I can tell you that you are totally wrong. Steve is a well respected, highly educated and very hard working Adobe engineer whom somehow finds the time in his private life to answer to this public forum

That said, thanks for backing up on the Mac Success story, and to add more to the pain, I never could get used to Nikon and stick with Canon :-0

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Engaged ,
Apr 20, 2013 Apr 20, 2013

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No, I know SG is a good guy. But is he the person actually assigned the work, or a newbie or is forces being marshaled for getting bugs from CS7 out of the way?

The only thing about Nikon I hated was the focus spiral is reversed from the rest of the world! With auto focus so what, but in the film world switching from Hasselblad or Leica to Nikon, yikes! I ultimately abandoned Nikon for Olympus OM-1.

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People's Champ ,
Apr 21, 2013 Apr 21, 2013

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or is forces being marshaled for getting bugs from CS7 out of the way?

I would place my bets on this for a reason

The only thing about Nikon I hated was the focus spiral is reversed from the rest of the world! With auto focus so what, but in the film world switching from Hasselblad or Leica to Nikon, yikes! I ultimately abandoned Nikon for Olympus OM-1.

That reverse was also for aperture on the lenses in the analog days. I have worked at a newspaper for a few years and had to use a Nikon FM and a Nikon F2 while having very nice Minolta camera's of my own at that days (early eighties, been a while…). And since then I could never get used to the correct way of changing focus and aperture again. Come to think of it, I still do hate Nikon for that

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Mentor ,
Apr 21, 2013 Apr 21, 2013

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Getting back on track, can I remind people wanting to fix this bug that I started a bug discussion on the feedback website many months ago, here:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/unneccesary_bridge_thumbnail_and_preview_extra...

Please add your +1 if you haven't already done so. Maybe it will help.

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Mentor ,
Apr 21, 2013 Apr 21, 2013

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Omke Oudeman wrote:

Conclusion, if it is not XMP side car files related then it seems Windows related, if so then you know what to do next….

There are at least a couple of Mac users with the problem on the feedback website topic.

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People's Champ ,
Apr 22, 2013 Apr 22, 2013

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There are a at least couple of Mac users with the problem on the feedback website topic.

You know I was only joking…

However I still can't reproduce this problem nor have experienced it. What I have found was that whenever you start working with large numbers Bridge tends to slow down very much and starts creating unexpected problems. I have set my border at a max of 5000 files per folder (that is DNG from 18 and 21 MP dSLR) and this did speed up my workflow considerably.

Having SSD and 32 GB RAM also helps a lot I have to say.

And I have the impression you do use Bridge somewhat as a DAM for your complete collection regarding the numbers you gave in the Feedback thread. I never made a secret that to my opinion Bridge is not capable for use as archive with large numbers.

I see Bridge as a good pre process application (that is for images) and use it also with a bit of other stuff but not very much other then images. I regularly dump the complete cache and start over, seldom have more then 15 K of files in total cached.

Waiting for a fix to this acknowledged problem seems something not to hold your breath for, so it might be time to look at other options.

Canto Cumulus Single user does a far better job for my archive (fast caching, light speed search results, catalogs up to 100K of files, search in combined catalogs, etc etc), but Canto is pretty lousy in the tasks I use Bridge for. The right application for the right job, there is still no 'one size fits all' and there probably never will be one either…

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Mentor ,
Apr 22, 2013 Apr 22, 2013

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Omke Oudeman wrote:

You know I was only joking…

However I still can't reproduce this problem nor have experienced it.

(I know you were joking, that's why I responded with deep pockets and pony tails.  You'll be having a go at Nikon next ... oh, wait.)

I was just stating the fact for the purposes of aiding diagnosis, as I couldn't remember if any Mac users had ever owned up to the problem.  The problem appears not to be platform specific, nor care where the XMP is stored, nor what Raw format is used.  It appears to be triggered by an unknown discrepency between metadata and cache data.

My software installation is relatively new, and most of my image folders are yet unaffected by this problem. It only seems to happen to 1 in 10 folders, and even then about 10–30% thumbnails are regenerated.  Before I rebuilt my computer it was happening to many more folders.  It seems to get worse with time.  Once a folder is tainted, it's difficult to get back.

I wish I could work out what triggered the problem.  Most of my folders are currently unaffected, and this is clearly seems to be the case for all of other users' folders. An intermittent problem is the worst to diagnose, and people naturally want to see it for themselves before they are convinced it's not just down to sloppy setup.  I think the number of considered reports in this thread proves that it's not just down to inferior gear or abuse of the software.  I have an SSD and 16GB of memory, bags of storage, and a fresh installation of software.  It hasn't had time to get sloppy.

As for using an alternate program,  I like Bridge because it enables me manage my photos simply and effectively as well as launch Camera Raw on single photos or batches, and quickly and see the changes written straight back to the previews.  When it works well, it's fantastic, and, despite the geological progress on improvement, I still think it's a very good application which could be even better if Adobe cared more.

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People's Champ ,
Apr 22, 2013 Apr 22, 2013

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I still think it's a very good application which could be even better if Adobe cared more.

In this we couldn't agree more, but as it proved we don't want to hold our breath for this either…

A quick glance at history:

CS - presented the file browser, looked very promising and until today still had the best handling of cache albeit it to less options (only 1 flag rating possible if I seem to recall correct).

CS2 - Bridge was born, again very very promising but all cached folders from file browser could be dumped because Bridge had a different cache format.

CS3 - Bridge's worst version ever, very unstable, lot's of problems with cache and again a new cache format.

CS4 - Bridge becoming stable and faster, AOM was added and PS Contact Sheet II was dumped, AOM turned out to be a winner but did need improvement, again a new cache format.

CS5 - Bridge again a bit more stable and a bit faster but no significant changes apart from being presented with again a new cache format.

CS6 - Bridge has been transformed to 64 bit, instead of taking this opportunity to revitalize the lot and add the most wanted options and improvement it turned out to be a copy of CS5 with again no significant improvement and again a different cache format. For some odd reason (people start yelling for getting old and outdated options back instead of yelling for improvement of the new AOM) the old Contact Sheet II has returned. Rewritten for CS6 but like the 64 bit transformation this opportunity was not taken to add better and more options to customize contact sheets.

CS7 - ??? the big question, will Adobe acknowledge the powers Bridge has to offer and start treating it is as the unmissable application it can be for the whole Adobe Creative Suite or are we again disappointed with lack of attention???

I really would like to keep on using Bridge but as a Photographer I'm fat up with the poor options Adobe offers for Bridge to import my files, I have to use Photodownloader (still 32 bit) . Yes it works for me but it hasn't changed or improved from version 1, it still is version 1 AFAIK and having a lousy thumb window and very slow performance I think it is about time this will be improved.

For the long run the ever changing cache format proved to be unusable for real use of DAM. Or you might like to recache your collection again and again?

Sorry for again getting a bit off topic but I'm real disappointed in how things are (not) going.

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Mentor ,
Apr 22, 2013 Apr 22, 2013

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There have only been a handfull of major improvements for me over the last 6 years I have been using Bridge (since CS3):

* Image preview quality was improved. It could still be better (sharper with wider gamut), but it's better than it was.

* Collections were added — saved searches and grouped shots from different folders. Great, although slowed down by recurring extractions.

* Bridge CS6 64-bit, hosting Camera Raw 64-bit. Better late than never.

Bug-fixes:

* Error writing metadata was fixed in CS6. Hallelujah.

* Folder panel right-click menu problem was fixed in CS6.

These fixes were only introduced with CS6, and not released as an update to CS5, which was very poor in my opinion.  I am concerned that we will see this behaviour again with the main topic of this discussion, even though the bug has existed for several versions. I hope I am wrong.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 22, 2013 Apr 22, 2013

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I just got an update prompt this morning for Bridge 5.02 and Camera Raw 7.4. It doesn't seem that this is anything newer than what was announced a month or so ago. Is it? And as far as I can tell from what people have said, none of this has fixed the recalibration problems. Am I correct in this?

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Mentor ,
Apr 22, 2013 Apr 22, 2013

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Correct. Adobe updates don't always appear in the application as soon as they are ready.  I guess this is designed to spread the load on Adobe's update server.

I'm not sure what you mean by "recalibration". Are you talking about repeat extractions?

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 22, 2013 Apr 22, 2013

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Has anyone seen any appreciable difference between RAW 7.3 and 7.4?  All I know is the continual recalibration/extraction (whatever you want to call it) problem started with 7.3 and apparently is still not fixed in 7.4). Any other changes? Problems fixed in 7.4???? I don't dare update so I can't say.

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Mentor ,
Apr 22, 2013 Apr 22, 2013

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ycardozo wrote:

Has anyone seen any appreciable difference between RAW 7.3 and 7.4?  All I know is the continual recalibration/extraction (whatever you want to call it) problem started with 7.3 and apparently is still not fixed in 7.4). Any other changes? Problems fixed in 7.4???? I don't dare update so I can't say.

This was last month: http://forums.adobe.com/message/5203702#5203702

The problem persists with 7.4.

This is from 2 years ago: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/853261

The problem has existed in some form since CS5, and possibly CS4 too, although I couldn't find my forum posts from that long ago.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 22, 2013 Apr 22, 2013

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wow and a few other thoughts that are not printable. thank you for the information. guess i'm stuck on 7.2 for the forseeable future.  if i ever update my laptop, i may try installing cs6 and update that to 7.4 as an experiment just to see what happens. or not. thanks all

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Community Beginner ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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Though this is not part of the present recalibration problem I wonder if it is somehow related.  I know I get email prompts for this and this part of the forum is closely followed so I am curious to see if any of  you have heard of the following...I have just posted this to the Photoshop general discussion forum (hopefully I put it in the correct place):

A friend on Windows 7 updated Photoshop CS6 last night. He had previously updated RAW to 7.4 with no problems. When he updated the main Photoshop program he discovered in Bridge that he could no longer do a bulk highlight of images. In other words, let's say you have Bridge open with a number of images up and you wish to highlight 10 of them. You would highlight the first, click on shift, then highlight the last. Or, you could hit the first, click control and hit whichever nonsequential images you wish to highlight.  After the update, he was no longer able to do this. Only a single image could be highlighted at a time, regardless of whether he clicked shift or control. As I said, he is on windows and version 7. This ONLY occured after the update. He immediately did a restore to a date from a few days previously (losing all the work he had done but also the update) and the problem went away. Has anyone else encountered this problem?      

I am not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories, please. But I do believe computer programs are extremely complex. I do believe updates bring their own bugs which in the past have needed complex fixing.  I do believe Adobe plans to push everyone into cloud subscriptions. And I do believe Adobe is simply not putting much effort into these fixes while pouring all its efforts into the cloud. As I said, has anyone else encountered this problem? If so, It is major and needs attention.

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Mentor ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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I don't see how this has got anything to do with the thumbnail regeneration problem.

Photoshop hasn't been updated in over 6 months. I'm on 13.0.1 here, unless you're talking about a Cloud thing that we don't get. Bridge was last updated in January.

In the light of the Cloud licensing announcement, you can probably kiss a fix goodbye now. They'll be saving any fixes up for CS7, just like they didn't fix the metadata error until CS6.

Adobe, keep digging.

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Community Beginner ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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No it doesn't and I'm sorry for posting it here but I wasn't sure if I was correctly creating a new post. I guess I was thinking, one upgrade is kinda like another??? Anyway, no, I don't think it was a 'new' update. This fellow has a habit of not doing things right away. I wish now I had asked him which version he updated to before doing the restore. To say he was in a panic is an understatement. I will ask him tonight what version he reverted to. I am on 13.0.1 64 bit. And I have not encountered this problem. And yes, you are right about a fix. As I said, anything computer is complicated and, yes, Adobe is pushing everyone to the cloud. Will this problem (if it truly does exist) be fixed? Will my problem with Bridge constantly regenerating thumbnails that have metadata in any version beyond 7.2 be fixed? I wish I knew. But now, I am truly hesitant to do ANYthing. And that's a shame because I am usually an early adopter when it comes to Photoshop goodies.

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People's Champ ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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To say he was in a panic is an understatement.

I'm not on Windows nor do I believe in conspiracy theories. I try to be careful in doing installs and updates as do I put effort in maintenance of my Mac and also try to learn about trouble shooting. I have to make a living as a photographer hence I think these are key features for a small business like mine but it should be the same for every serious users that cares about his produced work.

You are right that applications can be very complex and an update is always tricky for developers but they also do their very best to test as much as possible before releasing the update.

However there are many different setups and even more people that have different opinions about what a computer should be capable of doing all by itself, preferable right out of the box, so it is very hard to have a total real life and 'fool proof' test set up.

Bridge is one of those critical applications but mostly the problems are resolved using the control or option key upon restart of Bridge and choose reset preferences. If he tried this first it would probably have resolved the issue.

I don't say that this is an ideal situation but it is a known fact for years. If a simple solution like reseting prefs can resolve the problems, so be it until the perfect Bridge has been developed (which of course is very unlikely to ever happen as there are no perfect applications to my knowledge…)

Panic has always been a bad guidance, reading manuals or seeking help on the internet would be a better start when in problems. I also don't understand how it is possible to loose earlier created work. This would mean that either Windows has different opinions about restoring previous set up or he has no knowledge about how to handle a Time Machine (which actually exists on a Mac).

But it also proves he has no proper back up system from his work result because his production that he has spent so much time and care for should have been also on a back up on a separate disk. And with such an idea of not having a proper back up I also would start to panic.

And yes,

this is very much off topic

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LEGEND ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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YammerP:  Regarding "saving up fixes until CS7" there will be no CS7.  CS6 will continue to be sold as a perpetual license and PS-CC will be the updated version from here on out, available only by subscription, which may be the only way to get fixes for anything.

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Mentor ,
May 08, 2013 May 08, 2013

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So CS6 is basically one of the few expensive bits of software on sale that you can't expect bug fixes from. Way to go, Adobe.

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