P: Frame substitution attempt aborting error - .MXF Files

[Anthony LV]

UPDATE 8-30-24:  

We have released an update in beta that is a potential fix for these frame recursion errors.  

Please download 25 beta and see if that helps your issue?   

You can find Premiere Pro version 25 beta in the creative cloud desktop app in the sidebar under beta apps.  Thank You!

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I've seen a number of posts about this, and am now running into the problem myself. Although there are a few differences I'd like to share that I'm hoping may shed more light on what appears to be a longstanding issue.

Specs: M3 Max Macbook Pro (64GB RAM), Sonoma 14.3.1, Premiere Pro 24.1.0

The .MXF files were shot XAVC-I from the Sony FX6 shot on a V90 card. I copied the entire memory card structure to my internal drive, and imported the clips using the media browser. The clips are 59.94 fps and 23.976 fps on a 23.976 timeline.

As I perform regular editing tasks (slowing 59.94 clips to 40%, adding clips to timeline, scrolling through), I get these error messages.

BUT, here's the kicker: I'm not actually seeing dropped frames yet. For one of the clips I received the error on, I decided to go to the source window and scroll through frame by frame. I didn't see any black frames, but scrolling through did create 9 new error messages at different frames.

Aside from the error popups being annoying, this is a project that many people are depending on. If these dropped frames actually do end up showing, I'll be in a bad spot. It seems as though with every new project, I have to factor in at least a day to deal with errors or bugs in Premiere. I shouldn't have to be constantly fighting with the tools that allow me to do my job. Moreover, the C70 and FX6 both shoot in .MXF and are fixtures of video production. Frankly, I'm taken aback that there hasn't been more meaningful support from Adobe on this.

I'm currently creating ProRes Proxies to see if that may solve the issue, but I'm concerned that this will only solve the problem in editing, and the error (dropped frames) may show up once exported.

Does anyone have thoughts on why this may be happening? Is it time to switch to Resolve like everyone seems to be saying, or could this be a workflow issue on my end?

Many thanks!

[Juerg5CF2]

Hi all

I have done plenty of projects in the last 12 months with Canon C70 and R5C MXF long GOP footage (2160p, 25 fps, 4:2:2, 10 bit) without having seen a single error message popping up in Premiere Pro on my Windows 11 PC. 

Today, a customer of mine asked me to continue working on a bigger project, where we started filming in July 2022. When I imported the Canon C70 and R5C long GOP clips (> 200 clips) from back then, everything seemed fine first. But as soon as I started to put e.g. a lumetri on it, recursion and many retrieveing frame error messages started to pile up!

After having tried many suggestions offered in this forum and elsewhere, I spent hours with Adobe support on remote desktop with no solution. They advised me to transcode with handbrake, I tested it and yes, it works, but I can only choose one audio track out of my 4 and there will be a quality loss and another huge data pile. 

I tried the proxy workflow with a couple of files and so far and fingers crossed, I have not gotten a single error message!

Funny thing is, even when I toggle the proxy off and work on the original file, I do not seem to get an error message.

Does anybody know what is going on here? This is really weird.

I was using exactly the same format on both of my cams back then and these days, yet newer clips work perfect and the older do not.

Thanks for any help,  much appreciated, also because I am on a tight schedule.

Juerg

AMD Ryzen 9 5900X

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 V 546.01

128 GB Ram

Windows 11, 10.0.22631

[ghuff]

These are official file formats of cameras sold for professional use, and thus Premiere *should* be supporting them and not throwing up these error messages.

It's gotten worse with the latest 24.2.1 version.

[fernando alves]

I have just bought a brand new Macbook M2 Pro 12 CORE 19 CORE GPU 16 ram mac os Sonoma 14.3.1. Instaled Premire Pro Version 24.2.1 (Build 2). I am editing project with Canon C70 MXF avci, 4096x2160, 23,976 fps, in a 1920x1080 sequence.

I have been working for 8 hours and I received 20 alerts saying " Error retrieving frame" and 1 alert saying "Frame subsistitution recursion attempt aborting aftre multiples attemps on file". And also sometimes the palyback gets slow. I am only using 2 videos tracks, one sound track, no .jpge, no .png, no motion. I am just begining my edit. So I am just cut, delete, copy paste clips, adjust some clips scales and position, 1 lumetri with a input lut, no speed change, no 3rd part plugins, full playback mode, one external monitor, my footage is in a external ssd in a thunderbolt 4 port.

Before buy this new macbook, I work in the last intel Imac with Premiere 23 and never get this alerts. And the playback was bit better than with this brand new macbook.

What is going on? Is it a bug? Am I doing anything wrong? What should I do to get a better perfomance?

Thank you.

[Juerg5CF2]

@ghuff 

Spot on, thank you for your comment and moral support.

I am cutting things short here: I installed Davinci Resolve yesterday and so far, everything works like a charm.

[Khyati Gupta]

@fernando alves Thanks for reporting this issue, can you please try your project with latest beta build of PremierePro and check if it is working fine for you or not? 

Regards,

Khyati Gupta 

[WesHowellPPro]

Hi Anthony,

Sorry you are experiencing some issues here.
I work on the Pr engineering team. Would you mind sharing a sample file or two with me?  If you'd like to send me a PM, I'm happy to chat further.  

[fernando alves]

Hello Hhyati Gupta, how are you. I installed Premiere Pro Beta version. Yes, it is much better. I have been working for 3 hours and no alert at all during this period. Playback is nice. So far no problem at all! But lost some of my work. I think because open the project in beta version. So Khyati for how long should I work in this beta version?

Thanks a lot!

[kennyy69162399]

Hello,

Same here, MXF import to Premiere will appear message "Error retrieving frame from the file".

Thank you for your help

[Flix_799]

Hello,

same here, Windows 11, Premiere 24.2.1. (Build 2)

Mxf - drops, errors

Timeline - not responsive, freezing

[R Neil Haugen]

Wes, you've probably noted that this has popped up on the Facebook pro editors forum also.

Neil

[WesHowellPPro]

Thanks Neil - I'll see if I can track that down. Investigating...

[steves2019]

After updating to Premiere 24.2.1 from 23.6.4 there is now a delay of approximately 2-3 seconds after hitting the play button when working in the timeline.  Also, there is the "error retrieving frame" alert popping up from time to time.

Important to note is I am able to playback and edit the exact same footage in version 23.6.4 with no issues at all.

The issue seems to be unique to footage coming off the Sony Z280.

Footage properties:

Image Size: 1920 x 1080
Frame Rate: 29.97

AVC Long GOP High 4:2:2 Profile 10-bit Unconstrained Coding
Bitstream Format: Sony
Class 35

Again, no issues with this footage in Premiere v23.6.4

Just adding to my last post that footage from the Sony FS5 is behaving the same way.  HD 29.97 mxf format , class 35.  Footage from Nikon Z50 is fine, as is footage from the Blackmagic Pocket 4k.

System specs:

Windows 10

AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 12-Core

63.9 GB of RAM

Nvidia RTX 2080

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[florianp58479623]

Bei Premiere Pro kommt bei mir jedes mal der Fehler: "Rekursionsversuch der Frame-Ersetzung wird nach mehreren Versuchen bei folgender Datei abgebrochen."

Ja, es gibt schon einen Beitrag zu dem Thema, aber bei mir bleibt das Problem weiterhin bestehen.

Problem: 

1. Wenn ich im Projektfenster auf einen Clip doppelt klicke, dauert es sehr lange, bis sich der Clip im Monitor öffnet. Das ist zum Selects erstellen sehr nervig.

2. Beim scrollen in der Timeline steht ständig das typische "Media pending". Auch hier dauert es gefühlt wieder eine halbe Ewigkeit, bis die Clips geladen sind.

3. Verkrümungsstabilisation kann auf den Clips generell nicht angewendet werden. Beim analysieren bleibt es immer auf Frame 1 stehen und bricht dann ab.

4. Bei allen genannten Problemen kommen unzählige Fehlermeldungen. Entweder das mit dem Rekursionsversuch oder "Fehler beim Empfangen des synchronen Frames."

Bei einem anderen Beitrag steht, dass es behoben werden kann, wenn man das Material auf den Computer direkt zieht.

Ich schneide meistens auf ext. SSDs. Das Problem entstand als erstes auf der Sandisk Extreme Port. SSD 2Tb. Auf der Samsung T5, der Samsung 970 Evo und auf der Mac internen SSD bleibt das Problem gleich.

Ich habe auch schon versucht ein neues Projekt zu erstellen, aber das funktionierte auch nicht.

Bei meinen Projekten arbeite ich mit R3D Files auf einem Macbook Pro 16` mit M1 Max und 32Gb Ram.

Das komplette Projekt ist auch insgesamt nur 370 Gb groß.

Ich hatte den Fehler auf der Version 24.0 und konnte nicht auf 24.2 updaten. Wurde mir einfach nicht in der Creative Cloud angezeigt. Desswegen habe ich es jetzt auf der Beta-Version 24.4 auch ausprobiert und das Problem bleibt bestehen. (keine Plugins)

Hat den Fehler noch wer? Wäre super, wenn jemand eine Lösung hätte. ( :

Gruß,

Flo

[Carlos Ziade]

try to update creative cloud or log out/in .. if you see the new version, update to the newest premiere pro.

but if you are on tight deadlines, roll back to previously working versions and finish your projects,

backup, then update.. also, you can have several versions of premiere pro installed and use the already 

working version to meet your deadlines...

[florianp58479623]

Ich habe nach Ihrer Anleitung jetzt Premiere aktualisiert auf 24.2 und habe nochmal das Footage auf die Interne Festplatte verschoben. Hat leider nicht funktioniert. Ältere Versionen funktionieren auch nicht.

[fernando alves]

Hello, Premeire belta also has wierd things. For exemple, when i play fast foward (L) or backwards (J) and play it normal speed again the footage gets glitcs for each 2 normal frames , one glicht frame. And still like this for two cicles (2 normal, 1 glitch, 2 normal, 1 glitch and then backs to normal). My set up still the same.

Canon C70 MXF avci, 4096x2160, 23,976 fps, in a 1920x1080 sequence. My sequence settings is this:

 

This never happen to me in my old Imac Intel core I9. 

The glitch looks like this:

Thanks a lot!

 

[Christiaan1]

Same here with footage from Sony FX6 Camera.
One layer of video is fine.
When I layer the same clip over it, the trouble begins.
Many frams substitution messages. Laggy response. 
I have a monster PC and a very very fast NAS. Never been the problem.

When I can be of any assistence by sending footage, let me know.
Best regards, Christiaan.

[Christiaan1]

I have the same problem as posted here. You can read my reply. When you need Sony FX6 Footage just let me know.
Maybe the footage is not the problem. I also have the frame substitusion message with other file formats.
Has never been a problem. I think it is since the last update.

[mantomatt]

Same here with MXF files from Canon C300mkiii. 

The error messages seems to pop up frequently, and our biggest issue is that it slows Premiere down. 

We've tried isolating the problem by editing files from our local drive, instead of the server. Project Files on local computer, instead of Google Drive. Importing files through Media Browser instead of Finder. 

The common denominator here is Premiere Pro. It has occasionally had issues in the past, but not on this scale. 

We are using a combination of Mac Studios, M1 and M2, along with iMac i7's. The i7 allowed me to switch renderer, which did reduce the number of errors, but also slowed editing down massively. 

Transcoding is not a cost-effective solution, as this requires both our time and extra drive space. One of the biggest benefits of using Premiere Pro from 2010 onwards, was the native file format editing, and it would be ashame for this to be lost. 

We require a fix to this problem ASAP!

[jackalope500]

Hi - I'm using 24.2.1 build 2 on a Mac Studio 2022 (M1), running Sonoma 14.4.1

Lately, I'm getting loads of error messages about "Error retrieving frame.....at time ...." See screenshot here.

The above came within minutes of opening up a project I last worked on a few months ago.

A new project this morning resulted in errors, too - not as many all at once like above, but they seemed to be provoked when I added a motion graphic --- and then even just touched the clip underneath. But even then, the errors would pop up on other clips I hadn't touched.

I film in 4K on a Canon, the files are MXF. When I import, I create proxies. I work off a fast SSD drive (Samsung 2TB). There is plenty of room open on the disk.

Until now, I have just clicked on "clear all" each time and it goes away for a few minutes ... but then comes back again ... slowing everything down (and not helping me reach my deadlines!)

This problem has happened before, and it went away again - I cannot remember if I did something to help it, but I think I did. Can someone please help!? 🙂 Let me know if you need more info.

[Kartika Rawat]

Hi there!

Sorry about the issue. We have a community thread that discusses a similar issue: https://adobe.ly/3TMZNBl

Let us know if that helps.

Thanks,

KR

Moved to disciussions

[Master_chief]

This slows down my editing by a lot. It gets "stuck" in a frame for a few seconds and then updates when I try to add graphics to the image. Playback is ok, it sometimes stutters though. I've tried moving the files, clearing cache, updating Premiere but nothing seems to work. Creating proxies is not possible because of space issues.

I've attached the problematic clips properties. Is there something wrong with the camera settings or file? Any tips?

 

[jackalope500]

Hi KR,

Thanks for your reply. I've been trying out various things. The thread you list is now 5 years old. It does include an extra "updated" answer with many, many options to try.  I've been going through the first several.

- Reboot - does not help.

- Delete media cache. Helps for about 10 minutes, then the errors start coming agagin. I've also set the cache to my hard drive - it was always there.

- Move media to an internal drive. I've tried this now with one project. Just moved it before the weekend, so will try today. I travel a lot and edit on both a laptop and my MacStudio - much easier to work from portable SSD disks, as I have without problem for years. Plus I have several projects under edit at once. Do not want it to be the only solution that I must work only from the hard drive.

- Premiere is up to date, I use proxies...

- I was wondering a bit if the SSD disk I use is getting bad. So I've also transferred a project over to another SSD to try that.

- But if you can suggest anything else, I'll be grateful. It just happened again the other day where I needed to open a project I haven't opened in a few months, and within 10 minutes there were about 20 "Error retrieveing frame..." errors. !!

Best, Jack

[Ishan Y]

Hey Master_chief,

This must be frustrating! Could you check if the files work in the most recent beta? If you still see the issue, could you share one of the source files through private message so we can test them on our end? As a workaround, you can try transcoding your media to an edit-friendly codec using Shutter Encoder (https://adobe.ly/3JpJghD) if you're working on a tight schedule. 

Thanks,

Ishan

[Ishan Y]

Thanks for trying the steps and sharing your feedback. Could you share your media properties with us (Project Panel > Right-click on media file > Properties)? If possible, please also try importing your files to the latest version of Premiere Pro Beta. If you still see the issue, will it be possible for you to share sample source files for testing purposes? You can share the files through a private message.