P: ICC Table Profiles clipped shadows under OSX

[Max_Ramuschi]

Hi, I've just found a really bad issue occurring in Lr 5 (but also in all other Lightroom versions) under Mac OSX 10.9 with a calibrated monitor: dark shadows (from a value of 20 to 0) are all clipped (pure black with no detail and no textures) while the histogram remains ok, indicating NO clipped shadows at all. This issue afflics also ACR.

Photoshop for now is the only software under MAC that reproduces dark shadows correctly: Library Module shows a bit darker and shifted shadows than Ps but acceptable, Develop Module is really bad showing brutally clipped shadows (but you work in the Develop Module right?!).

The same problem occurred also in OSX 10.8 but it was related only to LUT profiles, creating a Matrix based profile problems were solved.

Now the issue occurs with both Matrix and LUT profiles, v2 and v4. There's no apparent way to make Lr working right.

Under Windows no problems at all: Bridge, Photoshop, ACR, Lr (Library Module and Develop Module) show the same correct NOT clipped shadows.

I tested 8 different Mac running 10.9 with different GPU, different monitors, different profiling Softwares (Color Eyes Display Pro, Eizo Color Navigator, BasICC Color, i1 Profiler). Same results.
I tried to change the gamma value (2.2, sRGB, L*) problems remain. I tried to change ICC version (v2, v4) problems reamain. I tried to change profile type (LUT, MATRIX) problems remain.

How can a photographer work professionally on RAW images if shadows are bad reproduced?

Why Photoshop can reproduce shadows correctly while Lr isn't able to do that?

Why this happens only on a Mac enviroment?

Is Lr based on ColorSync (that can't handle profiles correctly) while Ps isn't (because it can handle and it has no problem)?

Please Adobe, FIX IT for all professional photographers, we can’t use Lr for serious works under Mac.

Max Ramuschi
Adobe Certified Expert

p.s.: Added a 100% Crop screenshots that shows the problem, some photos are even worse...

[nesys75]

Kelly, Eric, any update on this?

More than 10 days from last update, can you please share the status?

Thank you very much for your effort

Andrea

[J453]

We're hoping to sneak this into the next update. Won't be too much longer. Stay tuned.

[colem22074208]

I'm having the same issue. Is ir related to ICC versions? (ver. 2 vs. ver. 4). My problem is particularly noticeable when comparing the same image in PS CS6 (or CC 2014) and LR 5. Wondering if LR5 is still operating on ICC ver. 2? Asking because when I switch monitor profiles to those generated via Apple profiler (rather than those generated by ColorMunki), crushed shadows dissipate and image looks the same in both programs. W/ ColorMunki profile, LR 5 crushes shadows andimage is very different than in PS.

[MadManChan2000]

Hi Cole, 

No, I do not believe this is related to ICC profile versions.  This issue has to do with specific details of how the gamma encoding curve is represented in the profile.  (Multiple ICC profile versions, including 2.x and 4.x, support the affected gamma curve representations; this is why I do not think the version is relevant here.)  We should have a fix soon.

[MadManChan2000]

Yes, exactly Massimiliano.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Eric is right: EVERY kind of profile is affected. I tried all combinations, v2, v4, table, matrix, etc. Shadows are bad in all cases. And it occurs viewing all kind of images: tiff, jpg, dng, etc.

[colem22074208]

OK, I'll go w/ that and hope it gets fixed soon. In the meantime, I'll go w/ PS version for printing. Not t be a pest...but if ICC versions are not the culprit, I can't figure out why the visual difference goes away when I revert to older monitor profiles? Here is an older discussion that initially lead me in that direction:

https://forums.adobe.com/message/4440968

[MadManChan2000]

It is possible that the older profiles use a different type of gamma curve representation.  I believe it is the internals (how the profile correction data is represented) that is at the heart of the issue, rather than things like the profile version or other basic metadata.

[colem22074208]

Thanks for the explanation.

[colem22074208]

Hi Eric,

for whatever it's worth, I just reprofiled my monitor w/ Colormunki, using version 2 ICC and LR 5 now matches w/ PS 6. Don't know if this helps or hurts but figured I'd post it. Cheers, Cole

[Adobetopfan1]

This is another 10 days later after a fix was promised. Any news?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Same question. Refreshing the Adobe Labs page automatically twice an hour for many weeks and also that RSS feed on high priority, and monitoring all the Twitter thingies and also this forum... but still nothing. :(
Maybe for Christmas?

[J453]

Should be fixed in Lightroom 5.7: http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjourn...

[Jao vdL]

Thanks. I tested it and it seems to fix the problem at least for me. Very happy.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

tested and not worked for me :-(
still much darker shadows...

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

and different colors also, I think LR doesn't "see" the calibrated profile at all and using the native factory Eizo profile

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

if I set Adobe 98 as monitor profile, (well, testing only..) both LR and Photoshop is 100% same. Eizo CX 240

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Thank you Adobe! :)
The shadows problem is 100% fixed here, now the fun begins. I can migrate back to Lightroom. Bye bye Capture One!

[MadManChan2000]

Thanks for following up, Jao.

[MadManChan2000]

Thanks for the update, Hans.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Jeffrey and Eric, the problem is NOT solved: matrix (polynomial) gamma based ICC profiles are now ok, BUT table gamma based profiles are exactly like before! Crushed black tones with no details! It seems you've found and solved one of the bugs, but not the other!

Again, with table gamma based ICC profiles, Lr shows dark, clipped shadows while Photoshop is ok.

Please moderators, change the status of this thread: it's not solved. This thread is about table based gamma profiles, and they are still not well supported.

I'm waiting for a response.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Not fixed for me: fixed only for matrix based profiles, table gamma profiles (used by pro monitors like Eizo Color Edge and NEC Spectraview) are still showing clipped shadows.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Fix does not work for table gamma profiles.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Fix doesn't work for table gamma based profiles. Ligtroom is still unusable for users who work with professional monitors which use these kind of profiles (eizo color edge and Nec Spectraview).

[Max_Ramuschi]

You're probably using a table gamma based profile, like me, and the fix isn't working for us. Adobe has still a lot of work to do to make Lr work properly.