P: ICC Table Profiles clipped shadows under OSX

[Max_Ramuschi]

Hi, I've just found a really bad issue occurring in Lr 5 (but also in all other Lightroom versions) under Mac OSX 10.9 with a calibrated monitor: dark shadows (from a value of 20 to 0) are all clipped (pure black with no detail and no textures) while the histogram remains ok, indicating NO clipped shadows at all. This issue afflics also ACR.

Photoshop for now is the only software under MAC that reproduces dark shadows correctly: Library Module shows a bit darker and shifted shadows than Ps but acceptable, Develop Module is really bad showing brutally clipped shadows (but you work in the Develop Module right?!).

The same problem occurred also in OSX 10.8 but it was related only to LUT profiles, creating a Matrix based profile problems were solved.

Now the issue occurs with both Matrix and LUT profiles, v2 and v4. There's no apparent way to make Lr working right.

Under Windows no problems at all: Bridge, Photoshop, ACR, Lr (Library Module and Develop Module) show the same correct NOT clipped shadows.

I tested 8 different Mac running 10.9 with different GPU, different monitors, different profiling Softwares (Color Eyes Display Pro, Eizo Color Navigator, BasICC Color, i1 Profiler). Same results.
I tried to change the gamma value (2.2, sRGB, L*) problems remain. I tried to change ICC version (v2, v4) problems reamain. I tried to change profile type (LUT, MATRIX) problems remain.

How can a photographer work professionally on RAW images if shadows are bad reproduced?

Why Photoshop can reproduce shadows correctly while Lr isn't able to do that?

Why this happens only on a Mac enviroment?

Is Lr based on ColorSync (that can't handle profiles correctly) while Ps isn't (because it can handle and it has no problem)?

Please Adobe, FIX IT for all professional photographers, we can’t use Lr for serious works under Mac.

Max Ramuschi
Adobe Certified Expert

p.s.: Added a 100% Crop screenshots that shows the problem, some photos are even worse...

[MadManChan2000]

If you are experiencing this issue, the 'workaround' for the meantime in Develop is to turn on Soft Proofing. You can set the proof profile to your display profile for normal cases, or to the desired output (e.g., print) profile for real soft proof situations. Either way, having Soft Proof enabled will force Lr to use its own internal display color management system, which avoids the issue. I know this does not help the Library module or other modules, but at least for the purposes of image editing, this should help.

[nesys75]

Hi Eric,

thanks for your feedback.

Any chance to have a fix in the near future? Maybe an internal display CMS for Lr as well? Do you have something in the pipeline?

Thanks again
Andrea

[MadManChan2000]

Hi Andrea,

Yes, we do have a plan for a fix, but unfortunately it won't be ready in the near future. This is why I mentioned the Soft Proof workaround, as a technique one can use in the meantime.

Eric

[nesys75]

Do you think it will be available on 5.8? or on 6? any plan or early stage?

[MadManChan2000]

Hi Andrea,

I'm sorry, I don't have a concrete timeframe for you at this time.

Eric

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I think the problem is solved now with Lightroom CC

[nesys75]

Any chance to have this fixed also on Lr 5?

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

...more precisely: the develop mode is perfect
However, the library mode is still clipped as I can see

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

Honestly... it's unlikely. They don't usually update old software. Sorry.

[nesys75]

well, this is quite bad ...CC has another commercial approach that I don't like. On the other hand I've a product that pretends to work correctly with shadows and lights ... quite bad for Adobe brand don't upgrade it.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Yes Finn, now Develop module is perfect, but Library module is still buggy. It seems that Library module still uses Colorsync, while Develop module now has its own CMS.

[Max_Ramuschi]

I can't understand what's wrong between EIZO Lut profiles and Colorsync (and Lightroom 5 and Library module of CC version). Hope Library will manage color profiles like Bridge does as soon as possible. At least, now we can work correctly in Develop module.

[Jao vdL]

Apple themselves still hasn't fixed a very similar problem in Safari introduced at Mac OS X 10.9: http://lagemaat.blogspot.com/2015/03/... and http://lagemaat.blogspot.com/2014/09/...

[MadManChan2000]

Thanks to all of you for reporting your findings.  Out of curiosity, are you testing Develop with the GPU acceleration option enabled in the Lr preferences?  

Thanks,
Eric

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Yes, GPU acceleration is enabled

Graphics Processor Info:
AMD Radeon HD 7950 OpenGL Engine

Check OpenGL support: Passed
Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Version: 4.1 ATI-1.30.5
Renderer: AMD Radeon HD 7950 OpenGL Engine
LanguageVersion: 4.10

[nesys75]

All,

maybe Lr 6 will include this improvement?

Please let me know

Andrea

[Max_Ramuschi]

Hello Eric, here's what I see:

on OSX 10.10.3 if you turn off GPU acceleration, everything is like in LR 5, Eizo table based ICC profiles are useless due to clipped shadows.
If you turn GPU acceleration on, the Develop module is working fine: perfect shadows just like Photoshop.

BUT every other module is still showing clipped dark shadows (Library, Slideshow etc), so if you have to show some photos to a client you can't due to this problem.

on Windows: everything is perfect, as usual.

I can't understand why you can't make Lightroom totally IDEPENDENT from Colorsync like the Bridge is. I can't stand anymore working with those problems (more than three years has passed since the first time the bug had been reported to Adobe).

Max

[Max_Ramuschi]

After some testing, here's what I see:

on OSX 10.10.3 if you turn off GPU acceleration, everything is like in LR 5, Eizo table based ICC profiles are useless due to clipped shadows.
If you turn GPU acceleration on, the Develop module is working fine: perfect shadows just like Photoshop.

BUT every other module is still showing clipped dark shadows (Library, Slideshow etc), so if you have to show some photos to a client you can't due to this problem.

on Windows: everything is perfect, as usual.

I can't understand why Adobe can't make Lightroom totally IDEPENDENT from Colorsync like the Bridge is. I can't stand anymore working with those problems (more than three years has passed since the first time the bug had been reported to Adobe). Why the Bridge is perfect (a free program that sucks) while Lr is not? Why can't Lr be used by professionists who use pro monitors with pro table ICC profiles on Mac platforms?

Max

[ssprengel]

The non-Develop modules are using computed previews. What happens if you recompute Standard and 1:1 previews for the clipped-shadows photos, do things look different?

[ssprengel]

LR 6/CC was released Tuesday, and the more recent replies are talking about what is happening in LR 6/CC not LR 5.

[Max_Ramuschi]

No...

[kavemano]

I would like to add something, now after following this thread for more than a year and through a number of lightroom versions.

To me this occurrence is more visible on certain cameras.
I compare my raw files between a Canon 6D and a Canon EOS M and it much more prominent on the files from the EOS M.

On those files the clipping in the shadows is huge when in library, obviously this is only visible on photos with little light.

I hoped this problm was gone, but last week I picked up my EOS M the first time in a while and I had a shock!

Please fix this. It useless to browse through any of my low-light photos and actually knowing whats good and whats not.

[Max_Ramuschi]

Really bad news: after updating to Lightroom CC 2015 the same issue does happen also on Windows platform if I turn on GPU Acceleration.

Lightroom (on Windows) with GPU off shows perfect shadows with Eizo table-based profiles in all modules.
Lightroom (on Windows) with GPU on shows clipped shadows in the Develop module, all other modules are perfect.

Lightroom (on OSX) with GPU off shows clipped shadows in all mosules with Eizo table-based profiles.
Lightroom (on OSX) with GPU on shows perfect shadows in Develop module, clipped shadows are in all other modules.

I REALLY don't know what's wrong with LR and ICC table-based profiles, now this issue shows up also on Windows. After three years since the bug first appeared on OSX, no one has fixed it...

I think it's time to fix it. Please.

[Max_Ramuschi]

I switched to Windows platform to skip the bug, but now I can't use Lr CC 2015 with GPU on because of the same issue I was experiencing on OSX.

Please Eric, find the bug and solve it! At least on Windows where everything was working perfectly until CC 2015!

[Max_Ramuschi]

An important update: the issue described in this thread affects only Eizo users, because Color Navigator (the only software that can manage Eizo Display's internal LUT) creates ICC profiles which need "black point compensation" to work properly. If the software color management engine can't apply the black point compensation, the shadows are bad rendered.

Today no OS can do this (OSX nor Windows), no internet browsers and probably neither Adobe Camera RAW 9.1 (with GPU on) nor Lightroom 2015.1 (with GPU on) can.

Is it possible to enable the "black point compensation" Lightroom Develop Module?