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estaud
New Participant
November 8, 2021
Question

Mavic 3 DNG pattern noise

  • November 8, 2021
  • 7 replies
  • 2117 views

Hello, I've been working with a few of the DNG files from the new DJI Mavic 3 drone. There is a fair amount of pattern noise in the sky at default settings. This can create a moire pattern depending on the size the iamges is scaled to on the screen. Does Camera Raw need to be updated to support these files?

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    7 replies

    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    May 2, 2022

    Here you can see the the pattern when the picture is opened without any changes on ACR, all sliders zero.

    You believe that all zero settings is no edits on the raw, or ideal? It isn't. I provided settings where ACR, like C1, shows NO pattern at 1600%; care to explain that?

     

    But it gets a visible problem when I'm building 360° panoramas, I have posted a screenshot of it above.

    Yes, your current settings are a problem for you. Don't use them! 

     

    I've had drones with smaller sensors which don't show this effect.

    Do you seem to believe the size of a sensor is the sole attribute of its quality? It isn't. Maybe you should use those other drones. Or better, simply use better ACR settings for the drone you do use. I provided a rendering at 1600% that shows no pattern. Are you unable to do the same? 

     

    We can compare jus the default settings

    Now what we can do is compare ideal settings. Like the one, I used to provide zero patterns on your drone raw at 1600%. 

     

    I have not yet found a setting in ACR that suppresses this effect and at the same time does not impair the image in other ways

    Some of us are better at rendering than others...

     

    I have already described the valid use case in which problems arise without excessive enlargement.

    And I've shown there are no issues with 'excessive' zoom ratios. And I've explained why zooming out farther than 1:1 is out of your control in terms of the subsampling each software product provides of which you have no control. 

    What is factual:

    At 1000% zoom, a pattern is seen in your raw data; RD shows this. ACR can't 'alter' what is in your raw. 

    At 100% it isn't seen in RD (let alone 200%  and even more).

    At 1600%, there is no pattern seen in ACR if the user controls the rendering. 

     

    Without this discovery I wouldn't have asked here

    There is nothing wrong with ACR to report here. There are questionable qualities of your sensor and your edits. 

     

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    May 2, 2022

    Camera Raw, 200%, no visible pattern, and the edits applied wouldn't be helpful (just the opposite) in making them even less visible at a much higher zoom ratio. 

    Again, nothing to worry about. 

    Not all sensors are created equal. 

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
    S
    stephansd
    Participating Frequently
    May 2, 2022
    @TheDigitalDog  schrieb:

    Camera Raw, 200%, no visible pattern, and the edits applied wouldn't be helpful (just the opposite)

    That may be so, but it is not the core of the problem. (I have been using ACR for about 18 years and I know the effects of the different controls quite well).
    The problem is the structures in the image, they are not supposed to be there.

    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    May 2, 2022

    Good news and good news at least in terms of the actual raw data in this DNG. It isn't under (or over-exposed) according to RawDigger and, at 100% zoom, I see no such pattern. So this isn't in the raw data! That you see it indicates it is a preview issue of some kind. So indeed, we need to know at 1:1 zoom, if you see this in Develop. It could be due to a GPU issue but unlikely, perhaps the display itself; maybe not a full high-bit display path. But as you can see below, when RD examines the raw data, it is clean. 

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
      TheDigitalDog
      TheDigitalDog
      Inspiring
      May 2, 2022

      Update but again, nothing to worry about IMHO. At 1000% zoom in RawDigger (and LR/ACR), yes, one can see a pattern in the sky but you'd see something similar depending on the tonal range at such a massive zoom ratio. Here is 1000% zoom at the top of the image, sky and at the bottom. As expected, you can see the individual pixels making up the image. Nothing to worry about IMHO:

      Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
      S
      stephansd
      Participating Frequently
      May 2, 2022

      The problem is what Camera RAW makes of this patterns. For example, I create highres 360° images in which the viewer can zoom in. These patterns sometimes lead to extreme moiré effects, making those 360° panoramas hardly usable.
      This means that this problem does play a role for me. 😞

      TheDigitalDog
      TheDigitalDog
      Inspiring
      May 2, 2022

      Upload a DNG that shows this, to something like Dropbox. Then we can examine the raw data outside of LR.

      Make sure you view this in Develop module only, at 1:1. Still see the pattern?

      Since you say it isn't apparent in every image, some of this noise could be due to under exposure. 

      Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
        S
        stephansd
        Participating Frequently
        May 2, 2022

        Hi digitaldog, I posted a link to a exemplary DNG File above, feel free to download it from my dropbox:

        https://www.dropbox.com/t/ouWaJ1BSw4K8V9o3

        I noticed that in different Raw-Developers the pattern strukture looks differrent.

        In Capture One it doesn't appear at all, in some other Raw Developers it is there but looks different and/or less pronounced.

        I am looking forward to see what you will discover.

        Regards,
        Stephan

        Earth Oliver
        Earth Oliver
        Legend
        May 2, 2022

        try totally disabling the sharpening.

          S
          stephansd
          Participating Frequently
          May 2, 2022

          Disabling sharpenung doesn't remove the pattern. It just gehts less obvious, bit it is still there and visible.

          S
          stephansd
          Participating Frequently
          May 2, 2022

          Hello estaud, 

          I'm running into the same problem.

          • The pattern isn't visible in every image
          • When it is there, the pattern isn't visible everywhere in the image.
          • It is definitely annoying, because it's prone to causing visible Moirées 


          I tried to get an answer from the support, but until now, there was no hint besides re-install/restart 😉

          Have you been able to solve the problem?

          I've attached a screenshot of the effect and uploaded the corresponding RAW File to Dropbox, for what it's worth.
          https://www.dropbox.com/t/ouWaJ1BSw4K8V9o3
          The pattern-effect is clearly visible in the lower middle of the image.

          Many greetings,
          Stephan

          E
          estaudAuthor
          New Participant
          May 2, 2022

          The pattern noise and the color uniformity issues I was having occurred right when the Mavic 3 came out in Nov/Dec 2021. They were both fixed by firmware and software updates. Make sure your Mavic 3 and Lightroom are updated.

          S
          stephansd
          Participating Frequently
          May 2, 2022

          Hi estaud, the copter firmware should be the latest one, as well I'm using the latest version of Camera RAW (14.3.0.1072).

           

           

          R
          Riveraktre
          Participating Frequently
          November 17, 2021

          That's an interesting pattern in the sky. I have yet to see this in mine. I took some DNG of my own and don't see such artifacts, perhpas might be depeneindg on which software you're using? Are you using Lightroom? Or Camera RAW? I am using Lightroom and don't see such artificats.

           

          Although I am having isses with my DNG preivew on my mac is all white. In the attachment below.

           

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