Adobe, Linux Support, and the Linux Foundation.

[gai.ra.III]

While generally I've only lurked the Adobe forums I've finally worked up guts to post this. I also know that about every 1-2 months this question is asked but I think it deserves a another go around.

My premises is this:

Adobe joined the Linux Foundation in 2008 for a focus on Linux for Web 2.0  Applications like Adobe® Flash® Player and Adobe AIR™. Currently Adobe holds a silver membership status with the Linux Foundation. So why in the world do they not have any Creative Cloud Programs available in Linux without the need for WINE and other such workarounds. I think it's a sucky move to support the Linux Foundation and use Linux in the back-end while not doing anything to support actual Linux users who have for at least a decade requested Adobe desktop products on Linux. Sure it's going to take a lot of manpower, financial resources, etc. But to truly support Linux and the Linux Foundation I think it's necessary that y'all do make things like Photoshop and Lightroom available for the Linux desktop. In any regards the wider Linux community would most likely help with testing and debugging programs. We're used to it.

[Danny221212]

As a member of the scientific community, I need to point out that a GREAT PORTION of academics use adobe software on a daily basis. Unfortunately, you are correct in that the majority of academics use a Linux distribution for day to day computing and as such must transfer to a MW based machine just to use your products.

Personally, I would rather suffer through using less intuitive solutions that support a company who do not support their users.

[marcom63759898]

I will pay the double or triple for a license for Ubuntu. For a professional is impossible work on Windows and Mac os is too controlled by Apple and by it's expensive products ... There is no freedom!!!

[ebinrock]

"I will pay the double or triple for a license for Ubuntu."

Careful, don't give the store away; some at Adobe or others may interpret this and say, "Well, if you're willing to pay that much on an ongoing basis, then you could afford to buy a Mac."  But yes, I would definitely pay the same subscription rate for a Linux version.  Now, some have given the argument that, well, they're a major corporation, they're not going to take the risk with such low market share of Linux (which I argue is difficult to impossible to truly measure, as it's a free download and can be freely physically distributed, etc.).  Well, look at all the multimillion dollar waste Hollywood does every year putting out crap movies that flop (Steve Jobs, anyone?).  Staying on that example, Steve Jobs' production budget was about $30 million.  Could anyone here estimate what the cost of porting all - or at least the most key - creative software titles to Linux would be?  Would it approach $30 million?  I'm not a software developer, but I imagine it would be a lot less than $30 million.  They would almost CERTAINLY get more subscribers, and especially there would be Windows subscribers who would switch, including myself.

And just like Hollywood flops, even if a movie flops here in the U.S., the studios often recoup most or all of their money overseas.  The same strategy can be applied for Adobe.  Overseas, what is the growing platform of choice because of its low-to-no cost?  Linux (mostly Ubuntu and its derivatives, due to their simplicity).  At any rate, what operating systems have the most market share among the mainstream consumer world doesn't really matter for Adobe creative products; theirs is a niche market anyway, comprised of professional content creators.  Among that fairly elite group, what are the operating systems of choice?  Mostly Mac right now, fewer for Windows, but Linux is definitely used at the high end for 3D animation and render farming.  Those content creators who use Linux would really like to streamline their workflow and use Linux for every aspect of the workflow, including the front end design and production.  It just makes sense.

[Chris@38p]

Not trying to be a pain, but if there really is staggering support, why not try crowd funding this and dumping the development money on Adobe's front desk

[ebinrock]

"Why not try crowd funding this and dumping the development money on Adobe's front desk?"

Heh, knowing big corporations like Adobe, they'd just take that money and do nothing with it, or something else with it, considering it as easy profit.

[dainiswmichel]

it turns into: do they deserve the love?

let's say i spearheaded just such a campaign. brought in 350K USD per month to start (an estimate) -- handed it over to adobe -- soon generating 10x that much & climbing.

what would i get?

i would have dedicated maybe 2-3 years of my life to a project -- to have the honor of paying my monthly fee?

seriously?

[ebinrock]

How did you get the money to Adobe?  I admire your passion, but unless we can get a guarantee that any funds we donate to them would be used for the Linux port project, we might as well throw our money in the fireplace.

[smoothsea]

Why don't you write your own publishing software?

Or why don't you write your own documentation?

Regards,

Malcolm

[treszy]

FINALLY A SOLUTION that works! You had your chance Adobe but now it's too late. I moved to DaVinci Resolve 12 Studio! Byebye Adobe, byebye Windows! Welcome LINUX again!

[ebinrock]

I was looking at DaVinci Resolve 12 Studio Linux version but (1) even without the $30K console, the $1K price is a bit steep for just an editor/color corrector IMO (unless you consider that's a one-time cost and not a subscription).  (2) The documentation says you have to use either Red Hat or CentOS distros.  Have you successfully used DaVinci on any of the user-friendly Debian-based distros like Ubuntu or Mint?  And just curious, what do you use for graphics/logo creation?  GIMP and Inkscape, respectively?  For audio cleanup/sweetening, Audacity?

[ebinrock]

"Why don't you write your own publishing software?  Or why don't you write your own documentation?"

BECAUSE NOT ALL OF US ARE SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS!!!  I, for example, am strictly a video guy and don't know how to write code.  Not only that, but don't you think others tried with Blender, Cinelerra, GIMP, etc. etc?  I'm sure they're really good programs for community-based open source projects, but let's face it, it took Adobe YEARS of development, LOTS of money, and SIZABLE teams to make the creative software they have today.  Yeah, the latest versions are very buggy and crash a lot, and that's an issue they need to work out, but the feature-set and integration are super-rich and unparalleled IMO, and I've used a lot of different digital video non-linear editors (NLE's), for example - since 1993: ImMix VideoCube...Media 100...Premiere 6.5...Avid...Final Cut Pro...now Premiere Pro, which is my favorite of all those.  If Adobe would either port the software to Linux, which in my experience is a lot more reliable and leaner than Windows, or, dare I say, open-source it so others could port it to Linux, that would be a match made in heaven.  Maybe they could work the bugs out a lot faster.  Maybe you could.

[ebinrock]

Also, it must so be an EMBARRASSMENT for Adobe not offering Linux versions, when a top of the line Hollywood-used software like DaVinci is offered in Linux!

[mytaxsite]

ebinrock wrote:

BECAUSE NOT ALL OF US ARE SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS!!!

What is the market share of Linux Ubuntu?  Any ideas?

I would have thought that there must be some intelligent Linux users who can start writing "Adobe Look Alike" software packages as they have done with Office packages to look like Microsoft Office.  The reason they are not wasting their time on this is because there is no demand for them.

I still think that there is not enough market for Linux applications because desktops are used by enthusiasts and academics while web servers and data servers don't need any applications to run on them.

Spending time to write something to run on Linux is a waste of time and money.  In fact most Adobe products are designed for professionals who don't have qualms about using Microsoft Windows or Apple Macs.  People who keep begging here for Linux applications are generally hobbyists and enthusiasts who are using Adobe products to educate themselves with a view to getting a full-time pad employment.  I personally think that they should just keep their mouth shut and get on with what ever they are doing and let Adobe decides what is best for it's balance sheet rather than rather than pandering to Linux junkies who have another 10 years to go before it is ripe enough for commercial desktop adoption.  At present it is still Microsoft followed by Apple Mac.  Linux is only talked within the IT geek circles, who don't use any products themselves apart from email and web browsers.

[ebinrock]

You know, it's funny how every time an Adobe staff member or an MVP replies, it's always a trolling negative answer to this plea for a Linux version of Adobe software, in order to discredit, discourage, or otherwise kill this idea.  Well it's not going away, and we're not going away.  You assume that all of us here are geeks and code-heads, and that we're not really interested in using the products themselves, we're just wanting to get our hands on it to learn and get paid employment (presumably in software development, right? - like you're assuming we all wish Adobe would open-source the software, which is NOT what we're wanting here necessarily).  Yeah, the Linux community is largely made up of developer-types, sure, but I'm here to testify that there are also plenty of us NON-TECHNICAL types who are just trying to get a real alternative to crappy Windows (I was editing video the other day in Premiere Pro CC on Windows 7 and it kept crashing) and ridiculously expensive Mac.  We have basically found ease of use, rock solid stability, and snappy performance in Ubuntu and its derivatives.  Look, I'm not a geeky developer.  I couldn't write code to save my life.  I am a 25-year veteran of the video production industry, period.  And I would simply like Linux as a choice.  If you MVP's and Adobe staff members think writing for Linux is such a waste of time, THEN HOW TO YOU EXPLAIN LINUX VERSIONS OF DAVINCI RESOLVE AND MAYA - two key products used in MAJOR MOTION PICTURES and other top-end productions?  Are they wasting their time and other resources?  So stop trolling and please be more open-minded about the changing computing landscape.  It's no longer a Windows-based world, and it really never was in the niche creative professional industries which you target.

BTW, informal survey here, anyone who's not a software developer or mere Linux enthusiast/geek, but is actually a working CREATIVE professional who would like these Adobe tools in Linux, please reply to me here.

[treszy]

The Creative Suit is around 800EUR+VAT at the moment for a year so for a little more you get DVR for life. Best thing is though it comes free with the BMCC. Didn't use to much PS so Gimp is enough, also I used Audition for basic stuff which I'm doing in DVR now. CentOS is quite basic but rock stable. Of course you have to compromise but had enough of reinstalling windows and premiere every 6 month, copying 6TB of footage from here to there setting up everything (virus protection, office..etc.)  Tried dual system as well (ubuntu+windows), where I did all non-editing stuff in ubuntu but it was a p.i.t.a.

[andy_bob_newton]

My problem with mac is not the price of mac itself, a mac pro wouldn't have cost much more than my current workstation. the problem is that it would quite a lot slower since the mac pro in the same budget range has less ram, and less storage and still is more expensive.

My problem with windows is not that I just don't like it (though I do prefer Linux), its that it is far less reliable. several hours of updates before you can log in and start work, many crashes in various programs which includes the windows sound service and that I find Linux support for the hardware and peripheral set-up I have (audio interface and print server being prime examples) to be better in Linux than Windows. because of this, windows is only ever a last resort for running things and it is hard to edit a video when the windows audio service crashes repeatedly, a problem I've never had with the same hardware in Linux.

Don't bother with market share because niche software such as CC is wanted by a niche community, and you'd be surprised how much that niche lines up with Linux users. that's why there are multiple threads on multiple sites asking for it, some with thousands of supporters. CC is the best complete suite for media content creation, but that may not apply forever. resolve 12 is coming to Linux for video, ardour audacity and the hundreds of other plugins replace audition, Pixeluvo already serves pretty much as a drop in replacement for PS and runs on Linux and there are other examples that are close but are not able to be drop in replacements just yet. until they are ready to be full replacements and resolve no longer requires the control surface for Linux, CC is still the best suite and some of it will be required by us the users. We want to use it but are being stopped by adobe not supporting us.

If adobe fall too far behind in Linux support, many more users like myself and treszy will move to alternatives which are becoming more and more competitive with adobes CC.

Linux support should not only be thought of as a way to gain new customers, which in many cases it will, but also as a way to ensure that current users don't unsubscribe, which seems to already be happening

[ebinrock]

Well said!

[coil_cream]

Linux rocks, and it will always be around. I can't imagine it costing that much to have CC run on Linux.

[mytaxsite]

coil cream wrote:

Linux rocks, and it will always be around. I can't imagine it costing that much to have CC run on Linux.

Have you guys thought of contacting Canonical and other Linux distributors to contact Adobe to make CC for Linux versions?  Of course, they would need to contribute towards the cost of setting up the Linux department at Adobe and in return they get a share of profit from sales of Linux licenses!!!  I believe the figure starts at around £5 Million (GBP) renewable annually.  Alternatively, you guys can find enough people to start the project rolling by each of you contributing towards the project.  Your wishes would be met within next three years if you can take some positive action now rather than crying about it on these forums.  I doubt anybody of any significant influence at Adobe is reading these forums.

This way Adobe might be tempted to start the project knowing that they don't have bear any loses from this project.

True, Linux  will always be around as long as there are people prepared to dabble with it.  Linux and its predecessors has been around for nearly 40 years but there doesn't seem to be any visible progress towards wide adoption among consumer and business users.

[ebinrock]

Cry to Adobe or cry to Canonical - same difference.  And, as I've stated earlier in this forum, I'm not a programmer/developer, I'm a video editor ("Dammit, Jim, I'm a video editor, not a computer programmer!").  And even for the Linux developers out there, Adobe's code is closed source, so how could anyone "work on it" when only Adobe knows how??

BTW, right now I'm experimenting with Kubuntu and, aside from just a couple of technical issues I'm trying to get worked out, I LOVE it!  More beautiful interface than even Mac OS X, IMO.

[andy_bob_newton]

Canonical or any other distro maker backing Adobe cc on Linux would help greatly but that would only happen if they have financial capabilities to do so. if canonical has the money that would finance a Linux cc, wouldn't they be more likely to use that to finance their own development instead? Afterall, they have an OS running desktops, phones, tablets, servers and more that they're maintaining as well as developing Mir and taking care of their enterprise customers, and so they'll probably be spending their money on all of those. Also, the share of money from linux licences wouldn't recover any of canonicals cost because there are no OS specific licences, just cc licences, so Adobe wouldn't give a share of something that doesn't exist.

however if instead of canonical doing it alone, if the companies behind all the major Linux distributions were to jointly finance it together with each other and Adobe then that would be a more reasonable situation.

We know Adobe won't give code and aren't asking for it because it would be of little help to many of us, we want to edit our videos and animations and design our graphics using our favourite software on our favourite platform

[andy_bob_newton]

After speaking with adobe support staff about payment changes, I asked about the future of Linux support. Imran (the person I was speaking to) asked if I had posted in the forum to which I said I had as well as also submitting a feature request. eventually he said this "there is no way that we bring back Linux into action. However, we are trying to get this implemented." without seeming certain of the situation. whether that means they currently have a team working on it but finding it hard or whether that is just a way to say it isn't happening but might at some point if I'm very lucky. either way it isn't very promising.

[Coby Randal]

Let Adobe hear from you on User Research page: Adobe - Adobe usability research. We want it and it's gonna happen! Adobe, please give us creative cloud on Linux! I want to run CC apps on Ubunto for my professional work so there won't be distracting and resource-consuming background processes running.

[TRAlencar]

This dismissal of Linux is ridiculous.

Most VFX shops run on Linux boxes. My shop runs 50 machines with the most powerful 3D, texturing and compositing software there is. All perfectly available on Linux:

Autodesk Maya

SideFX Houdini

The Foundry Nuke

The Foundry Mari

Go check the license prices for those, if you think Linux users don't have any money. By the way, Nuke replaces After Effects entirely and makes a joke out of it. Mari has replaced half of Photoshop functionality already. Add to this that our programmers work on Linux and you will see why we have not renewed our subscription.

Adobe is becoming more and more irrelevant to VFX each day.

[mytaxsite]

tralencar wrote:

This dismissal of Linux is ridiculous.

Most VFX shops run on Linux boxes. My shop runs 50 machines with the most powerful 3D, texturing and compositing software there is. All perfectly available on Linux:

Autodesk Maya

SideFX Houdini

The Foundry Nuke

The Foundry Mari

Go check the license prices for those, if you think Linux users don't have any money. By the way, Nuke replaces After Effects entirely and makes a joke out of it. Mari has replaced half of Photoshop functionality already. Add to this that our programmers work on Linux and you will see why we have not renewed our subscription.

Adobe is becoming more and more irrelevant to VFX each day.

Which Adobe product are you interested in?  Have you thought of asking Ubuntu or whoever's  distro you are using why they are not prepared to contribute to the cost of developing Adobe products for their operating system?

Microsoft started by paying people to write software for their DOS and Windows OS and they weren't rich in those days. Very few people actually used a PC because they were too expensive and there weren't suitable programs to use.  Of course WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3 spreadheet came out and Microsoft became very rich.  Why can't Linux do the same when you guys are prepared to bend over backwards to use it.

Have you bought Corel Aftershot Pro 2?  Apparently it is the best product for Linux!!  Try it and let us know about it.