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Alternatives to the Creative Cloud

New Here ,
May 07, 2013 May 07, 2013

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With Adobe's decisions to force users to go to subscribe to the creative cloud, I thought it might be a good idea to get a list going of some alternative programs. I'm a designer working mostly in print with some web - anyone know of some good alternatives for these?

Photoshop -> Gimp

Illustrator -> ?

Indesign - Quark

Dreamweaver - ?

Flash - been moving away from that anyway

What programs are you going to look into to replace the creative cloud?

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Mentor ,
Dec 03, 2013 Dec 03, 2013

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Photoline (pl32.com) does CMYK out of the box - actually, you can use Lab, RGB, CMYK, Greyscale @ 8/16/32bpc PER layer in Photoline's layer stack (something Photoshop cannot achieve unless you convert to awkward smart objects). It comes with full colour management. (Costs less than Elements, btw)

So you may have the original RGB version and a CMYK version of a photograph in the same layer stack - no longer do we need to convert the entire file. Or work on a different page, since Photoline support multi-page documents as well.

It also supports true vector objects, rather than merely vector objects that are directly converted to bitmaps. Export to pdf and svg retains the vector shapes and text. Also interesting to note here: you can work in Lab curves no matter the colour mode your layer is in - no image mode switching is required, unlike Photoshop.

It's all very liberating in terms of workflow. The only things missing are the 3d and video fluff. Those are pretty meagre and average anyway compared to the competition out there in those areas.  (For example, for 3d painting apps like 3dCoat, BodyPaint, Mari, zBrush or Mudbox do far better and superior jobs.)

Although Photoline does not have the Pantone libraries installed per default, those can be installed legally as well, if needed (see http://wiki.scribus.net/canvas/How_to_legally_obtain_spot_colour_palettes_for_use_in_Scribus_1.3.3.x...).

Btw, Canvas is nice, but severly hampered by its lack of >8bpc support, no Lab, no CMYK, and many other limitations. Same holds true for Pixelmator, Acorn, Seashore, etc.

For 2d digital painting Krita is improving by heaps and bounds lately: the Windows version works really well, and is production ready. Again full Lab, RGB, CMYK support at  8/16/32bpc, and the brush engine arguably blows Photoshop out of the water. Both Krita and Photoline work with the same type of layer stack, and completement each other very well.

The best thing: Krita is completely free and open source. It is quite amazing. I am sorry, but Canvas can just not compare at all with its painting capabilities.

http://krita.org/

http://www.kogmbh.com/download.html

Photoline includes an app-link that allows you to seamlessly move between Photoline and Krita - Photoline also picks up on file changes, and will automatically update the file it is working on.

SOooooo... working professionally in CMYK is no problem at all outside Photoshop.

wkjeiwoi wrote:

The CMYK thing is a road block, I fully agree..

a couple of years back, a buddy of mine and I experimented with Apple ColorSync, there is a lot of information on how to use it; I found it pretty thick and confusing.

our results were...on the good side...good-ish, compared to Photoshop's. Then there's Seashore, which can convert to CMYK, but again, in our non-scientific testing, I can't vouch for how accurately Seashore does it.

And another point, does Adobe have a lock on CMYK algorithms in software? I can't think of any other software publisher's software, now available, which does. Does/Did Canvas? Freehand did..

Naturally, CMYK printing pre-dates all of this computer stuff by quite a few years...

Anyone know about this aspect of the discussion?

thanks!

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New Here ,
Dec 04, 2013 Dec 04, 2013

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Guys, get real. Whoever wants to use alternatives - he does that already. For whatever reason it might be. However...

The problem that is ignored in this discussion is not whether there are alternatives to Adobe's software or not. It's obvious that there are, their capabilities are close to or even (or sometimes superior) to Adobe's software. The real problem lies elsewhere, in a very simple fact - Adobe's software, at least in 2D graphics field, is the industry standard. Period. So as long as you are a freelancer working directly for a client, it doesn't really matter what are you working on. But when you are in a business relationship with any design company, or working for corporate business, you don't really have an option. Knowledge and working with Adobe is a must. Sometimes Corel can get into that position, but as far as I can tell, it's far from beeing a majority of cases.

For instance, the example from the field I'm trying to bite in - there are many good and even better tools for digital painting. But I know no one, not even a single top league guy in concept-art and digital painting fields, that wouldn't be using PS. Not a soul. When I ask professionals what are the requirements for the position in their companies, or game dev companies they are working on, there's ALWAYS the same response - get good at art, and get fluent in working on PS.

The very same answer I got so far from every single design company (not necessarily in art branch) I've ever been working for, with or aplying. So... like I said at the beginning, get real guys.

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Engaged ,
Dec 04, 2013 Dec 04, 2013

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You are right with your description about the monopoly/dominance of "Adobe" in the Graphical Business.

Image Editing is called Photoshoping.

Also InDesign, Dreamweaver, Flash & InDesign are the elephants in business.

On the other Site, I can´t see, that this remains for ever.

"Adobe" bought competition and did a lot, to hold it´s Number One position.

(Also with the still acceptance of pirating, they are whining about now)

But in the last years, I saw many competiting Apps growing up.

For Web. For (Vector-)Illustrating.

For Video there ever where Alternatives (and that´s why only the Video Community got the real good upgrades since the comming out of "Adobe" on May 6th - "Adobe" is in fear to lose this field)

InDesign can be replaced with Quark again, but I think that will not happen as a market trend. So if one works with a company, that wants InDesign Files as a result, he has a problem for the moment. Yes.

If you have to deliver .psd Files, it doesn´t matter if they are done with PS or an competitors App, as long as this App is able to write an valid .psd fie.

(And once you can handle ONE image editing App, it´s not that great step to use/learn an other one - you are familiar with the functions, which are mostly the same.)

PS: I know many, who are painting (illustrating) digital with Painter or others. But, yes, all of them use PS also (for the moment).

Dreamweaver has (very good) competitors also (with much cleaner code).

Flash not in total, but also has. And Flash is dies slowly.

Illustrator (which is the worst App of "Adobe" in my eyes) is a standard, yes, but also competition is coming. Faster. More logic. And closer to Designers needs.

(I hate Illustrator and still use Freehand - on a Xtra machine - for the most Vector-Jobs)

Acrobat/PDF file handling is easy with "Adobe" but competition is on it´s way. You can do nearly all you need with other Apps than the original.

For Hobbyists in Image Editing (great part of "Adobes" cake!), there is no longer a need to stay with "Adobe". There are great alternatives.


Forgotten something?


Coral? You are right with your estimation, that it will not get the position. Missing MAC is one of the Killer Arguments. And Coral is also very conservative.

But:
I don´t know anyone personally who is lucky with this "Cloud" licensing.
And I know a lot.

I think, that "Adobe" want´s to bring as much users as possible into their dependence, because they are aware of exact that: Competition is becoming mature!
So they are working the hell, to bring your files to a status, where you only can use them by renting the tools. Let´s say: Pay for your archive.

Once in this position, you will think about it very well, if you like to jump of the so called "Cloud".

They are using the advantage, that they can deliver tools over all fields (2D Print, Vector Illu, Web, Video...) and so the "Cloud" bundling was a logic strategy to keep income on a high level.

(People, who don´t need all the tools, are now paying for all the tools. People, who didn´t like to pay for every upgrade have to pay for every upgrade now. All users are on MasterCollection Price-Level now)

Conclusion:

"Adobe" is the Standard for the moment. You can call them a monopoly (for print design).

But that might change in future.

Stating: It is like it is seems not the right argument.

Many of users I know are totally p..d of the so called "Cloud".

I - for myself - a 23 yrs Adobe user on MC CS6, will never subscribe. No way.

Even if the cloud is given away for $1.

I don´t pay for the ability to use my own archive. Never.

So the "Cloud" could be a like shooting in the knee, it can speed up the process of raising competition.

Since May 6th I only use my CS6 in the cases, where I can´t do the job with other Apps.

Try to bring my created files to formats, that are mostly compatible to others.

It´s hard, to leave these wonderful tools, you used for years, but possible.

The market dominance will break one day. Every bet. (More wondering, how "Adobe" could hold it´s position for so long...)

But also: Since I´m looking around, I found many nice (little & big) advantages.

"Adobe" isn´t the only one to do the real good thing.

I correct myself: In marketing they are.

Till 2015-2017 the market of Graphical Business will have changed. I´m convinced.
Adobe is just trying to get the most out of it´s mature Apps as possible.

(and I don´t believe that the prices of this will be stable over the next years)

And it´s so hard to bring in, real amazing new features into Aps like PS.

(Video? Huh? In a bundled solution that contains AE & PREM? Please first synchronize/make familiar all the different behaviors of Layers, Path-Handles and so on between PS, InDes, AI, AE. OR: Make the "help" button an help button - The "help" of today is a catastrophe. The Tel.Support a (very bad) joke.)

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Contributor ,
Dec 04, 2013 Dec 04, 2013

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Adobe's big gamble is that all their rich corporate users will move to Adobe CashCow due to inertia or fear of change.

But many of those rich corporations bought their employees Adobe CSx simply because it was 'industry standard' and 'a safe bet'. But with the huge risk of signing up to CashCow, they'll now question if their employees actually need Photoshop... and realise that a huge proportion are doing nothing but a bit of pixel tidying before saving the result as a JPG, which any crappy old editor could do.

So I predict that a very large proportion of the current PhotoShop CSx user base will simply move to the 'safest' option - Adobe Photoshop Elements, CorelDraw Suite (the next safest option), or go open source (e.g. GIMP). I expect all the other 'unknowns' like Photoline, however good, will not gain much market share.

Only a small percentage of high-end corporate users that actually do perfom complex layer work, use loads of deep features and then save as huge .PSD files will be forced to roll over and sign up for Adobe's lifetime greed.

Ultimately, I think Adobe will lose the battle by decimating their user base, and as a result have to charge ever higher rental prices for the suckers who signed up to CashCow.

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Enthusiast ,
Dec 04, 2013 Dec 04, 2013

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Your all thinking in terms of creative user while Adobe in think business strategy.

With the numbers between CS6 perpetual and CS6 subscription, they could not have possibly thought this would succeed.

The question is, what is Adobe up to?


Tanking stocks to buy back control?

May not be working as well as planed?

http://tickerreport.com/banking-finance/82499/adobe-systems-ceo-sells-2840500-in-stock-adbe/

Does this send a message?

We may know more by the middle of this month.

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Engaged ,
Dec 04, 2013 Dec 04, 2013

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> Was DYP
Have to be carefull, with seeing that as a sign.

These sellings are often strategic.

(Sell before curves go down and buy again...)

But you are right: Some are selling out their stock like hell over the last month...

And if they can tell the big thing in the middle of the month, I´m wondering about that.

(But may be someone needs money for buying christmas gifts...?)

Adobe may be not good in any field, but in marketing they are.

They will survive and molify at their next business report - every bet.


But that doesn´t mean that they succeed in the end.

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Explorer ,
Dec 04, 2013 Dec 04, 2013

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Was DYP wrote:

Your all thinking in terms of creative user while Adobe in think business strategy.

With the numbers between CS6 perpetual and CS6 subscription, they could not have possibly thought this would succeed.

The question is, what is Adobe up to?

Respectfully, I disagree with your point, #1. We are creatives, yes, but we are also in business, and unhappy with a move by a vendor that puts most of us in an uncomfortable business position.

Your point 2, I have to disagree also; Adobe have made a calculated move which they made because they believed that it will succeed. David Pogue wrote a pretty good take on it, some months back.

What they're up to, they've publicly stated: they want more revenue.

Opinions on both sides are pretty heated, but looking at it from a purely business standpoint, there is now huge opportunity for some wise developer(s) to exploit.

To me and to others, it appears that this exploitation is already well underway.

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Mentor ,
Dec 04, 2013 Dec 04, 2013

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Well they sure as heck won't get this way in fact they will lose their shirts. Then The pople stuck on Adobe Product will have to move to something else or other vendors will but the product and destroy the company. I'd like Microsoft to do a Hostile take over and keep Acrobat and sell the other pieces to the highest bidder.

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Explorer ,
Dec 04, 2013 Dec 04, 2013

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Well, how about this...rather than fewer players in the marketplace offering a limited range of choices, how about more players?

20 years ago, things were pretty well up for grabs and it was a great time for everyone. Obviously these companies made money. We had choices, benefitted from the competition, and somehow, we did great work at 40mhz.

yeah, computers were that slow!

When there's only 1 player in the market, or even a 2 or 3, we all suffer. Ask this question: How does it come that, when 1 company who basically runs the card table, must resort to essentially "forcing" people to play cards?

People want to play cards...why force them?

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New Here ,
Dec 04, 2013 Dec 04, 2013

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I also can't see the status quo to be maintained forever. Quark was holding a monopoly in its time, and Corel was somewhat a competition to the Adobe back then, after all. So the question is rather when and who than if, agreed. IMO, the next big thing will be someone who can unify all the apps and their workflow, like Adobe did, but with more customer friendly business model (leasing, retails, resonable pricing etc). And invest a hell into a marketing, to get the fame spread.

But for now, Adobe is, and for few years will maintain, a necessary evil. It's sad, since I like the apps, it's the pricing and business model that makes the problem. Personaly, I subscribed to CC because I had no option. A basic CS6 design standard  was damn expensive and beyond my reach at the time - it was equivalent of 3 years of CC sub. And I still need all of those tools, plus something like Lightroom (no, I had no previous version to hold on unfortunately, and I had to work on Adobe soft for a reason of beeing a "standard"). If I manage to switch business succefuly I hope to stick with nothing more than the retail CS5/6 PS, paired with a Painter (or some other "classic arts simulator").

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Mentor ,
Dec 05, 2013 Dec 05, 2013

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dawidowicz wrote:

For instance, the example from the field I'm trying to bite in - there are many good and even better tools for digital painting. But I know no one, not even a single top league guy in concept-art and digital painting fields, that wouldn't be using PS. Not a soul. When I ask professionals what are the requirements for the position in their companies, or game dev companies they are working on, there's ALWAYS the same response - get good at art, and get fluent in working on PS.

The very same answer I got so far from every single design company (not necessarily in art branch) I've ever been working for, with or aplying. So... like I said at the beginning, get real guys.

That is just not true. Some of the best top-notch industry professionals use Corel Painter instead of Photoshop for their work - Ryan Church for example. http://ryanchurch.com/

And many, many more professional artists prefer Painter as their main tool  for digital painting jobs. A couple more examples:

http://www.toddlockwood.com/

http://www.androidjones.com/

Scores of professional comic artists use Manga Studio/Clip Studio for their daily digital drawing/painting/illustration work:

http://jonathancase.net/my-transition-to-surface-pro-and-manga-studio/

http://www.clipstudio.net/en/

In Japan most digitally drawn comics are done in Clip Studio. You'd be stark mad to use Photoshop for comic work nowadays - the drawing feel in MS/CS is far superior to Photoshop.

Krita (open source and free) is also more and more used by professionals for digital painting work:

http://www.davidrevoy.com/

http://krita.org/item/166-in-conversation-with-enrico-guarnieri

Though I agree Photoshop is still prevalent as a main tool in most jobs, no-one cares if you work in a different tool - as long as the quality is there, whether you used Photoshop, Painter or Krita is of no importance, and only the result counts.

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Engaged ,
Dec 06, 2013 Dec 06, 2013

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Though I agree Photoshop is still prevalent as a main tool in most jobs, no-one cares if you work in a different tool - as long as the quality is there, whether you used Photoshop, Painter or Krita is of no importance, and only the result counts.

Think, that was meant with, what dawidowicz said.

I´m also of the opinion, there are many better alternatives to PS in many cases (belongs on what you are doing with it).

But PS is the standard and the most complete image editor FOR THE MOMENT!

It´s code is very old & I think, we can see competition grow in the next years.

So let´s hope the Nr1 position will be history one day.

(And I think, "Adobe" tries to force us on the cloud, because they are exactly in the fear, of beeing not able, to bring in great upgrades (in all of their Apps))

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Explorer ,
Dec 09, 2013 Dec 09, 2013

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Agreed there upgrades for their old products have become a trickle instead of a good steady river or even stream. Illustrators only significant changes in years are what they took from Freehand and macromedia. Buying macomedia made official adobes monopoly and much of its competition.

As we have seen in 20-30 years of software things change. One day your on top and within a year you can be overthrown and have most of your customers flee. To overthrow adobe a company would need a wide and deep scope of products which few have. The pigeons of adobe competitors are starting to gear up for the move "the birds" on adobe and all peck it to death. Each not a significant threat but when swarmed by dozens of birds and hundreds of mosquitos what can you due but lose.

Im eager to see adobes next quarterly report. I doubt they are doing any better than september. Adobe offering the 9.99/month to all is in my mind an act of desperation to try to boost their quarterly numbers. The mater of the fact is adobe is way behind for meeting its goals and promises to stock holders. They will have to explain how they were far behind their goals for CC subscribers. This will force adobe to make a move. With any luck they will get their head out of the sand and make a big change to try to satisfy its customers again or keep plowing forward off the beaten path encountering trees that slow down their bull doser.

Adobe will be just one more software company that became arrogrant and the customers decided not to join them for their next round of upgrades.

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Engaged ,
Dec 04, 2013 Dec 04, 2013

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> Herbert

Herbert2001 wrote:

Photoline (pl32.com) does CMYK out of the box - actually, you can use Lab, RGB, CMYK, Greyscale @ 8/16/32bpc PER layer in Photoline's layer stack (something Photoshop cannot achieve unless you convert to awkward smart objects). It comes with full colour management. (Costs less than Elements, btw)

...

WOW! The Photoshop Killer...!


Didn´t know that. I thought I once had a look at, but I can´t remember there was already CMYK.

Sounds very intersting, and if it´s a working thing, you are my best friend (for the moment : )

Will look immediately.

ICC profiles also (had a look).


Tx a looooot for sharing your knowledge.

Missing of 3D or Video is less important.

You are right with that - there are (much) better alternatives by specialist Apps.

But it´s an argument against those who will make us believe, that it´s no problem to open .psd Files with FULL access.

Thanks again!

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New Here ,
Jan 04, 2014 Jan 04, 2014

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I can't hate on Adobe since they are working off of a businees plan and no one ever said they need to do what's financially best for anyone but themselves.   There will be no Sherman act at play here either since as long as there are rivals (and there are) Adobe can move along at full steam.  Still, aside from Photoshop and Illustrator I find Adobe products severely ill equipped or flawed.  Adobe Premiere is seldom used professionally in the film/ TV world.  And you'd find a pink unicorn faster than you'd find a  VFX artist without acne who uses AE over Nuke or Flame or a proprietary program as their main tool.  AE is pathetic. Premiere is a toy. Audition is a joke.  Dreamweaver is a deathwish. - I'd stab a hire if they coded for me on DW -  And Flash is dead.

Photoshop - Nothing comes even close to this gem and industry must BUT Corel's triple threat of PShopPro, PhotoPaint, and Painter will get the job done and Painter bests Adobe in the brush category.  GIMP is amazing as well and due to every geek and th geekette mother who bore them, it keeps getting better with new free plug ins.  GEEKS UNITE!

Illustrator - No argument. Simply sublime but Corel Draw isn't too far off.

After Effects - Awww time for the big boy pants.  UPGRADE to Fusion, Nuke, or Smoke (Linux/OSX only).  I know, I know learning curve head.  It's okay.... you got through potty training and tying the laces on your booties ... right? 

Audition/Soundbooth - Pure JUNK.  I'd rather be deaf like Ludwig Van.   UPGRADE to Pro Tools, Logic (OSX only), or Samplitude (PC only)

Dreamweaver - BLOATED terror. UPGRADE to Sublime Text, CoffeeCup. Don't clog the web!

Flash - WHY? No really, why?

Premiere - We graduated kindergarten  finally now did we?  Avid MC is a BEAST but an industry standard that is made to handle anything.   Lightworks Pro  can handle any file and has a gorgeous interface.  Premiere makes me puke.  It''s slower than a lobotomized sloth on pot.    Putrid interface and design.  A blind man designed it. I'm putting some Benjamins down on that guess!

Soon Adobe will buy out Maxon and add 3D to it's stable of mediocrity.  Adobe CC 2 will have Cinema 4D, Meanwhile, in the real world, Maya and  3dMax with Lightwave and Softimage behind them own the 3D world.. 

Adobe, pumped up Shareware at a ridiculous price.

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Mentor ,
Jan 04, 2014 Jan 04, 2014

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You sound a bit like a troll going off on a personal rant like that. And 99% of what you are saying is quite untrue.

ps try Photoline as an excellent replacement for Photoshop's image editing.

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Participant ,
Jan 04, 2014 Jan 04, 2014

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He doesn't sound like a troll to me at all. I was thinking a lot of the same things myself. Much of the problem with Adobe isn't just their pricing scheme but also their products.

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Mentor ,
Jan 04, 2014 Jan 04, 2014

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For me the only Products worth while for me are:

Acrobat

Fireworks

DreamWeaver

LightRoom

Photoshop is Okay.  But have other products I can use just as well, with the only Feature that's worthwhile in Photoshop is the clone tool where you can correct defects, remove things. The rest I can do in Graphics Converter.  The rest rest of the line could be discontinued would suit me.

On application I would love on Mac Platform But adobe refuses to create for the Mac, is LiveCycle Designer. Or, at least put the features in Live cycle in the Mac version of acrobat.  I've been trying out inDesign But I think I will allow the preview to lapse.

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New Here ,
Jan 04, 2014 Jan 04, 2014

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I sound like a troll after writing nearly half a page with informative commentary?

I can't hate on Adobe since they are working off of a businees plan and no one ever said they need to do what's financially best for anyone but themselves.

I even defended the company you son of a lady Malamut.

Calling someone you disagree with a "troll" is the thing keyboard warriors do when they can't fathom an intelligent response.  There are reasons why studios don't use After Effects or Premiere as their main tools. 

You sound like an idiot or a hobbyist amateur who has no clue about VFX.  99% of what I say is untrue?  Grow up you are ignorant. Go learn. UDemy or Lynda or I bet a toddler could school you. Herbert..  Herbert???? Did your parents HATE you?   Damn.

Or MYBE you are a troll from Adobe trying to discredit my post? Hmmmmmmmmm??????

In which case you should DEF go get a real job now.

Photoline can't handle high volumes of RAW files with automation tasks.  But for a hobbyist like yourself who labors over "red eye" removal I'm sure it's more than adequate.

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Mentor ,
Jan 04, 2014 Jan 04, 2014

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@ Alienbones

I never called you one, only that your commentary on all the Adobe products sounds a bit like it.

I do apologize for the term "troll", though - I should have been more qualitative in my wording, true enough. "Emotional" would indeed have been a more suitable description. And text on a forum loses 95% of how humans communicate with each other (body language), so the intent of a post can be misunderstood easily.

Having said that, it was your first post here, and your informative commentary includes a high amount of emotional language with strong downgrading wording to it (like stating anyone who uses either Premiere or Afx being a child).

And now you shoot off like a cannon and start belittling me whilst throwing insults in my direction in your second post on this forum.

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Mentor ,
Jan 05, 2014 Jan 05, 2014

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Let's all calm down. And get out of the "Yo Mama wears Combat Boots Mode" doesn't do anyone any good. Just make your points and comments without resorting to you’re a troll. I've been on the Internet since the days of 300 baud modems on regular Telephone (POTS) line paying for long distance calls, while on bulletin boards. (yes I am Arthritic, and even have a beard that's mostly grey). I can tell you what a Troll is. I've had run ins with several. My opinion of them and Spammers are the same. I'd love to have sometype of software that would send a feedback signal to to their setup which would burn out all their Computer equipment.

So far at least in this Thread I haven't seen any Troll's.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 05, 2014 Jan 05, 2014

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@alienbones You're mostly right here except for the fact lots and lots of professionals use After Effects. Iron Man HUD is one recent example as with most computer screens in movies. Lots of TV commercials, as well.

Sublime Text is still pretty weak. You can't even print with it. Notepad++ or Ultraedit are better.

Flash is still awesome, but I agree it's dead. Adobe completely destructed that one and it's a shame because it's very powerful. No way Javascript can come close to it. And whoever decided using a quirky, browser-specific language would be better than a complied, write-once, use-everywhere block of code?

Adobe CC2? What's that? I thought the CC was the CC. A (more or less) stream of updates to stay current, not another bunch of periodic upgrades.

Was considering buying C4D, but no more. LightWave 3D is picking up serious steam again so I'll go with that.

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New Here ,
Jan 05, 2014 Jan 05, 2014

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My momma DOES wear combat boots. WHAT OF IT?

I said AE isnt used as a primary compositor and it isn't, not that it isnt used at all. Iron Man used Fusion and Nuke mostly and AE only for some tasks.  AE is used widely in commercial and music video work mainly due to its strong motion graphics and swiss army like abilities.  But you ain't making Lord of the Rings with it.

And Herbert, LOL I write my comments with flare brother not vitriol.  Nothing  I say should be seen as a personal attack.  I'm sure everyone here is plenty intelligent.

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Mentor ,
Jan 06, 2014 Jan 06, 2014

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@Alienbones: no problem, man. I recall I was in a bad mood when I posted my comment on your post, so again apologies for using "that word" against you.

And for the record, I stopped using Adobe software for my professional work about 18 months ago myself, though my students (web dev) still of course get taught "the industry standards" like Photoshop and Illustrator, so I keep up with them.

For me Photoshop has become bloated and laggy at times with the incorporation of 3d and video fluff - there are far better tools for both, and I myself use 3dCoat for painting 3d objects for example. The problem with Photoshop is that the core functionality has not really seen any major updates in a long while. I concern myself with professional image editing, and found Photoline a brilliant replacement for that.

It does full 8/16/32bpc, the layer system is arguably an improvement over Photoshop, and for the most part non-destructive. It has some rough edges, but on overall works better than Photoshop (for me). Being able to work with the curves in Lab mode no matter the image mode is one of those extremely handy workflow features that is hard to beat once you get accustomed to it. At times I yearn for an image editor that would incorporate some form of node-based editing, though.

Illustrator is a pretty good vector app, though its workflow is hampered by the legacy code and workflow. It's also been getting bloated over the years. Definitely would benefit from a cleanup. It's very slow to work with compared to Xara Designer Pro (which incidentally also offers full html/css web export).

I left Dreamweaver years and years ago, and now use Netbeans for all my development. SublimeText is indeed very nice for html/css/javascript coding, but not a true IDE with full php debugging and stuff for more complex server side projects, or CMS plugin development. A number of my students do enjoy SublimeText. And Dreamweaver is preferred by some students as well.

The code editor does not bloat the web though - it depends mainly on the quality of the coder behind the code editor. As far as coding environments go it's comparible to the type of clothing a person wears: very much an individual preference.

As for Afx versus node-based compositors: depends on the job. I wouldn't see myself using Nuke to create typical motion graphics - just works faster and more efficient in a layer based environment. I have enough friends in that industry myself, and they tend to favour Afx for that type of work. For compositing a layer-based approach is not that great, so I use node-based comps for that (I also work professionally in 3d).

No-one would be caught dead in Afx doing a very complex virtual environment setup - which is where compositors like Nuke rule.

And yes, I switched to Lightworks myself a while ago.

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Explorer ,
Aug 21, 2014 Aug 21, 2014

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I had hoped CC would go the way of Adobe's stock photography venture did but I am glad I didnot pledge to hold my breath. My question to all who uses Photoshop, Lightroom, Premier and Dreamweaver whitch of the above alternitives have the best customer support IE paid phone support. I dont care about the cost I just want to get away from Adobe.

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