Alternatives to the Creative Cloud

[davedunlap1]

With Adobe's decisions to force users to go to subscribe to the creative cloud, I thought it might be a good idea to get a list going of some alternative programs. I'm a designer working mostly in print with some web - anyone know of some good alternatives for these?

Photoshop -> Gimp

Illustrator -> ?

Indesign - Quark

Dreamweaver - ?

Flash - been moving away from that anyway

What programs are you going to look into to replace the creative cloud?

[Yellamokara]

bababongatwo wrote:

I was not talking about "positive articles" on the web.

(I am in the advertising and marketing industry and I know very well how these "articles" are made...!)
I was asking about only ONE blog/threat where there are more PRO as NEG voices of REAL users. Again: Show me only ONE!

And: It took a year to press 700.000 into their cloud. Thats 13.500 a week. So a week later means: 713.500 and not 1 Mio. This difference is very important for the succes of Adobe. As if they don´t reach their self set goal of 1,25 K in November, that will become a problem for them.

And: They will not change anything to the troubles you have after subscription. It´s their base to force users to stay in the cloud, when they will have to raise prices. And they have to (...for the moment Adobe has a lose of income by nearby 2/3 in total... That doesn´t work for a long time, and in the near future there will be no additional income from CS6 buyers... Make the math)

The 700k are allmost certainly mostly new customers, not existing ones. I doubt too many new customers bought the old licensing model, so the writing was pretty much on the wall when it came to the future of that product. Existing customers will not subscribe until their normal upgrade cycle comes into play, so you won't see the effect kick in for a few years. Eventually most of them will move over to the new system however. Options presented by competitors at the moment are other substandard or much more expensive, so I think the average user who is comfortable with Adobe's pricepoint is not going to be inclined to shoot themselves in the foot just because you have your knickers in a knot and are loud about making sure everyone knows that.

I think Adobe saw a huge uptick in new users (which is where they get most of their money from, not the guys who upgrade every 5-10 years) when CC was first introduced and realized that the growth market is there, not the old model. There is no reason for the company to cater to people who rarely upgrade anyway, but still expect support. In essence that group is being heavily subsidized by the people who do support the product.

As for people complaining, those who like the product are not going to complain, they are just going to use the product. You will allways see a vocal minority of disgruntled users, but the volume of their voices is way out of proportion to their numbers because they are upset. That doesn't make them "most users" however, it just makes them loud.

[bababongatwo]

Yellamokara wrote:

The 700k are allmost certainly mostly new customers, ... Eventually most of them will move over to the new system however...

Options presented by competitors at the moment are other substandard or much more expensive...

is not going to be inclined to shoot themselves in the foot ...

That doesn't make them "most users" however, it just makes them loud...

I don´t know, where you took that facts. As I read, there are many newbies, but most of the subscribers are former users, using the discount of upgrading (which will stop soon).

But you are right - Adobe plant to lose more than half of it´s "old users". Or more.
They want to reduce their users from an amount of 12.5 Mio to 4.5. Great business strategy. Don´t know, if they plant all that with newcomers???

Until their upgrade cycle comes to play? There are no longer upgrade cycles.

You are right - in some cases there are no real competitors, as in their Core-Product PS (I wonder why there is no monopoly-law).

You can replace InDesign easily with Quark (which is better and also faster). For Illustrator there is absolutely no need to be replaced - keep CS6 till the end of your life. Flash is dying and there are competitors (cheaper). Video solutions can be raplaced (but not so easily and you have to threw away your PlugIns and workflows, strong learning curves also) with Avid/Apple/Sony. Dreamweaver has real competitors. So you can change in most cases without having to pay for the use of your own archive after subscribtion.

And you may be right, the pis.ed on people will shout out louder than the people who don´t care about. Right.
But I can´t remember I ever saw such an never ending rumor in the web for a software change.
The announcement of their evil plans are made two month ago, but the voices will not stop.
Also amoung my business partners & colleagues - The Image of Adobe has turned from one day to the other. They are ranking at microsoft level now. Not longer a serious company.

BtW: I´m one of their most paying customers in the past. My MasterCollections were always updated and ever bought - price was never a question. But the hazels like take one or all, lose your archive after subscription, etc. (don´t have to tell again...) are unacceptable and I turned my back already to Adobe.

You sound as if CS6 and CC are compareable - that it´s still no problem if you use the one or other. That´s not true. And I even don´t want to rent at all (as so many others).

Also don´t want others to follow.

----------

CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never

[bababongatwo]

Btw: Please have a look to all the support blogs. Most of the support-wanters are not the old professionals (who know, that it´s more easy to google for support, than to search at Adobe "help").

All the questions and knowledge lacks clearly show, that most of support is taken exactly by all that newbies.

Yellamokara wrote:

...There is no reason for the company to cater to people who rarely upgrade anyway, but still expect support...

[Guest]

Whilst adobe has signed up 700k to the cloud and will probably reach its mark of 1.2million long term this is not a good plan

Adobe admits that losing access to files once you stop subscribing is not cool... it probably violates law as well.
The only way to remedy the file access issue is to introduce some form of owned software... if thats the case...why take the option away..

May people tout that they can now access software they could never afford... this means a whole bunch of people who didnt have the business sense to obtain the software are now your competition.... these users will saturate the market drive down prices and standards but adobe will be richer..

When the cloud gets hacked (and it will)... the fallout will be huge.. there will be a huge shift away from Adobe and the loyal users who purchased the software will want nothing to do with them..

If it aint broke dont fix it... last year we had the choice...rent or buy.. bring it back

[Danny_Michael]

Chazinbermuda wrote:

May people tout that they can now access software they could never afford...

Just go look at some of the "tech support" questions being asked in the forums since the Cloud. I'd laugh if it didn't hurt so much to see such a sham made of this "professional" software suite.

[frankgrimes]

Dennis Smith wrote:

Where do you get a number like 700?  Adobe's CEO on Jun 19 stated ...

"Adobe now has 700,000 Creative Cloud subscribers; its goals are to have 1.25 million by the end of 2013 and 4 million by the end of 2015".

And if they told you wolverines would make good housepets, would you believe that, too?

[frankgrimes]

Dennis Smith wrote:

How do you figure there are "VAST" numbers that are severely "pissed off" at Adobe?  I see maybe 100 posters here who are very unhappy.

Adobe currently has some 1,000,000 subscribers to CC, which makes this a somewhat "small" group -- even if there are 10x that, its still "small".

I suspect there are many more who would prefer a different set of prices, and the ability to continue using for a few years after stopping say a 4 or 5 year subscription, but I don't see 1,000,000 agry customers running elsewhere.

I also wonder sometimes what people mean by "the cloud" when talking about CC -- if it were called "CSAU", "Creative Suite with Auto Updates" would you like it better?  It really has zero to do with the "cloud" as is used in IT circles when talking about cloud-provided-computing, its just very slightly different way of getting updates, and a different way of paying for them.

I have spoken to numerous users who are thrilled with the pricing as they currently use 3 or 4 applications and this is now cheaper for them.

Your logic is specious at best. Don't assume everyone who is unhappy with CC is posting here. I am a freelancer and work with several small design and marketing firms who are right now deciding if they can afford to continue using Adobe software. I don't see them posting here. I also work with large organizations who have their own staff doing the work I do, but outsource some work to me -- these include universities and multi-million dollar businesses -- who are very angry these costs have now more than doubled.

Absolutely, Adobe will make truckloads of money from this move at the cost of losing smaller businesses and individual customers. Collateral damage to them.

[Greg_Bohn]

> I see maybe 100 posters here who are very unhappy.

  And let's not forget the 35,000 or so at https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-s... who have signed the petition...

  Adobe only had about 8 % of it's customers on CC when they yanked the perpetual model.

>  I don't see 1,000,000 agry customers running elsewhere.

  Adobe is counting on people who have been negatively affected to just suck it up because Adobe dominates the market.

[Yellamokara]

Greg Bohn wrote:

> I see maybe 100 posters here who are very unhappy.

  And let's not forget the 35,000 or so at https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate- the-mandatory-creative-cloud-... who have signed the petition...

  Adobe only had about 8 % of it's customers on CC when they yanked the perpetual model.

>  I don't see 1,000,000 agry customers running elsewhere.

  Adobe is counting on people who have been negatively affected to just suck it up because Adobe dominates the market.

And I bet 34500 of those 35000 will convert to CC however.

[bababongatwo]

I REALLY don´t understand, how there can be users, who have no problem with losing file access (their clients files!) after subscription. That´s slavery.

I will never subscribe - you can believe me.

Also I know many agencies here, who are already DOING a change. They replaced InDesign with Quark for example. And they are not amused about the slavery-prices.

As I´m also active in Video-editing and Web-Design - I don´t have to estimate if people will change - I can see that.

Sure - many will stay with Adobe. But for how long they will? Prises must raise in near future if they will come out of their financial situation (2/3 of income lost at the moment).
And there are also many (think the most) who will stay with CS6 as long as they can.

No doubt what they will do if Adobe does no change.
May be a part is jumping into that BS CashCow. Sure there are some or many. Short Thought in my eyes.

I wouldn´t bet, that 34.500 of the those signers will be seen in the cloud. To my knowledge (talked with many professionals last month) there are many searching for alternatives or simply can´t or will not and never subscribe.

----------

CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never

[Danny_Michael]

Let's just see what happens once the "introductory pricing" cycle ends. We'll see then how this pans out.

[Greg_Bohn]

> And I bet 34500 of those 35000 will convert to CC however.

   Time will tell how many people buy in and how many people won't. I'd have to believe that most of that group won't.

   But for the sake of argument, what would it mean if they did? It would mean that the angry people who were affected in a bad way by this just rolled over and "Assumed the position".

  How would that be a good thing (that angry customers felt they had no choice but to go along)?

[Phillip_M_Jones]

Only about .00001% of people actually knows about these forums. so the people that that are actually upset are vastly more than what is here. It just but a tip of the iceburg showing here.

[Craig Curtis]

signed.

so my rant: I tried to add a second subscription of JUST photoshop to my user ID. Apparently (a fact that you can't find out until AFTER you buy) you can't seem to have more than one subscription to creative cloud per user. This is HORRIBLE.

I have one CC membership - cost $49/mon

wanted to add one "photoshop only" version for when I have extra freelancers work at my studio. This should be $29/mon (for a total of $78).

Since adobe only allows "one subscription per user ID" you are REQUIRED to upgrade to "TEAM" membership. The main difference is that the team membership gives you an extra 80 gigs creative cloud storage (who cares). And the privelege of this is that you have to pay $70 per user, per month. So instead of me paying $78 per month to run this aspect of my business, it will now cost $140. Nice way to kill small businesses, Adobe.

[quenton8]

So why do you want to add a single-app to it? that app is already included so you have it anyway???

If you really want them separate, just create a separate account -- not sure why that would be a problem.

[Guest]

Scott Kelby says Adobe thought ths long and hard before they introduced it... I disagree...

The cloud is still buggy for many and the cost longterm is going to be horrible for the small business owner

and the disparity of pricing between countries is just eye brow raising for a product delivered in the same fashion

with very little operating costs...

[frankgrimes]

Chazinbermuda wrote:

with very little operating costs...

To be clear, I hope you mean low operating costs for delivery. Development costs are probably considerable, as I hope they would be. Programming is difficult work and the people who do it deserve to be compensated well for it.

[Guest]

yes low operating costs... they dont need bricks and mortar and boxes etc

[urdaddi]

Chazinbermuda wrote:

yes low operating costs... they dont need bricks and mortar and boxes etc

You would be mistaken if you think that Adobe does not need "bricks and mortar". And just how do you think that Adobe can provide access to their sotfware? You think it is as easy as plugging a computer up to a cable modem?

Being that you think you know what you are talking about, why do you not enlighten the rest of us with actual facts as to what the operating costs are for Adobe.....or any other large business providing software via download. I would actually be very interested in seeing this.

[Guest]

Adobe has argued that the cloud will reduce costs as they are able to deliver producst via the net... gone is the day of needing DVD's boxes etc...

Prior to the cloud if you lived in Australia you would purchase disks from a retailer who would ship them in boxes via an airplane.. Shipping heavy books and Disks consumed fuel and required multiple people to deal with it...these costs were built into the cost of the product.

With the cloud all uses need is a highspeed connection...no fuel ...fewer people fewer buildings.. etc ...(I am surprised you have never heard of this system before 🙂

Now here's the kicker...The cloud costs 50% more in the UK than the US... it is being delivered by a high speed connection so operating costs are similar to the US so why the price difference... we speak the same language? Yet in Australia (which is much further than the UK) the price is almost the same as the US... pourquoi? I think it might have something to do with the fact that the Australian government stepped in and said...hey you are gouging us...

Now here's the thing...the cloud may work for you...I think that is great (really)... it doesnt work for me...I and many others ask the option to purchase be restored... you view the cloud as evolution..I view it as monopolisation..

[urdaddi]

Chazinbermuda wrote:

Adobe has argued that the cloud will reduce costs as they are able to deliver producst via the net... gone is the day of needing DVD's boxes etc...

Prior to the cloud if you lived in Australia you would purchase disks from a retailer who would ship them in boxes via an airplane.. Shipping heavy books and Disks consumed fuel and required multiple people to deal with it...these costs were built into the cost of the product.

With the cloud all uses need is a highspeed connection...no fuel ...fewer people fewer buildings.. etc ...(I am surprised you have never heard of this system before 🙂

Now here's the kicker...The cloud costs 50% more in the UK than the US... it is being delivered by a high speed connection so operating costs are similar to the US so why the price difference... we speak the same language? Yet in Australia (which is much further than the UK) the price is almost the same as the US... pourquoi? I think it might have something to do with the fact that the Australian government stepped in and said...hey you are gouging us...

Now here's the thing...the cloud may work for you...I think that is great (really)... it doesnt work for me...I and many others ask the option to purchase be restored... you view the cloud as evolution..I view it as monopolisation..

You have not actually presented any actual facts as to what the specific operating costs are for Adobe. The only thing you have provided is your opinion.

[Guest]

obviously I am not good at this.... can you give me a break down of their costs...can you also explain to me why you object so much to me wishing to own software rather than rent.

[urdaddi]

Chazinbermuda wrote:

obviously I am not good at this.... can you give me a break down of their costs...can you also explain to me why you object so much to me wishing to own software rather than rent.

I cannot give you any information on Adobe's costs, because I do not have the facts, anymore than you have them.

And actually, I do not object to you wishing to own software rather than just subscribe. I wish you could have that choice. I feel bad for those that prefer to purchase rather than use a subscription. I think that there are some making posts in the forums here that present very god reasoning as to why it would be good to have the physical software in addition to subscription based. To me, this seems like it would make more people happy.

I do not begrudge you on this, and I do no diminish that for some it works better to own the software.

[Guest]

its good to hear we can agree on something... pro cloud and Anti cloud users did not have this problem last year... wish adobe would listen

[God_I_hate_Adon_tbe]

Chazinbermuda wrote:

obviously I am not good at this.... can you give me a break down of their costs...can you also explain to me why you object so much to me wishing to own software rather than rent.

Hi Chazinbermuda,

If you consider the basic cost of (for example) Photoshop CC as $49/month $588/year, or for me in the UK £46.88/month, £562.56/year (which incidentally works out at $857.12; quite obviously the UK must be a far richer country than the US, otherwise that would make Adobe a bunch of robbing scumbags), that would mean that your software which you purchase per month would quickly reach the cost of a single user Photoshop CS licence.

Even in the UK the cost of CS6 works out at a smidge over £600 ($914.16).  So, after just over 1 year you've surpased the amount that you'd pay for your own disc copy of the software ... which you can use for as long as you like without having to pay anymore toward as I have already said previously.

If you can't afford to use an Adobe product to start with then try something that you can afford until you can raise the cash to pay off the full version (if that's what you really want to do).  Corel is an excellent alternative that costs no where near as much Photoshop, so why not put your $49/month into your piggy bank until you can afford the over priced alternative?

Come on CC Zombies ... give it back then!