[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[toxic_waltz]

Adobe does not care about you/us.

What will stop users from using CS6 is the lack of access to CC files. If you are an individual user and live in a bubble, you will not be affected. If you receive files from others, it becomes a problem. Adobe is betting on this problem.

Unfortunately, Adobe disregards the fact that public relations has been greatly damaged and understands the risk with damaging your good faith.  But alas, they don't care as clearly stated by their actions. They are betting that you will have no choice, but to join the cloud. In the short term, they are willing to sacrifice good will, customers, sales and general well being of all corporations that use Adobe products.

Complain all you want. They could care less.  Well for now, until it affects their bottom line, but they are betting this strong armed move to the cloud, you shall join.

[Guest]

Adobe does not care about you/us.

What will stop users from using CS6 is the lack of access to CC files. If you are an individual user and live in a bubble, you will not be affected. If you receive files from others, it becomes a problem. Adobe is betting on this problem.

Unfortunately, Adobe disregards the fact that public relations has been greatly damaged and understands the risk with damaging your good faith.  But alas, they don't care as clearly stated by their actions. They are betting that you will have no choice, but to join the cloud. In the short term, they are willing to sacrifice good will, customers, sales and general well being of all corporations that use Adobe products.

Complain all you want. They could care less.  Well for now, until it affects their bottom line, but they are betting this strong armed move to the cloud, you shall join.

Oh we'll see Diablo. Time will tell the ultimate story here.

[Andy_Bay]

There a link to his comment?

There you go, Mylenium calling the feature a nightmare:

http://myleniumblog.com/2013/06/18/creative-awful/

And no, he is not referring to the actual Cinema 4D program (it's a nice program), only the "so called" AE support for it in CC.

[bababongatwo]

Thanks.
I´m not longer unhappy, that I can´t have this (I will never subscribe to the CashCow).
Now there is really nothing I miss with my CS6.
Think the Cineware announcement was more an gimmick (like many others) to catch as much Cloudies as possible.

----------

CC = Cash Cow = Terminating the word "Archive" in digital future = Lifelong dependency = NoGo = Never

[Guest]

if the survey only accepted pro cc opinions then adobe will be feeding false data to its investors which is a serious fraud situation not to mention a breaking of sec rules

[toxic_waltz]

Business ehtics 101 is not on Adobe's list of things to do lately.

[Kwan Parker]

Test to just to see should this coment show up . . . and I'm not still banned for insulting Adobe pets.

Does this post violate Adobe rules?

[TheCoroner9]

Chazinbermuda wrote:

if the survey only accepted pro cc opinions then adobe will be feeding false data to its investors which is a serious fraud situation not to mention a breaking of sec rules

That's what crossed my mind when the survey quickly ended after the 1st CC question. They should have at least asked why their customer wasn't highly likely to use CC in the next 2 yrs.  If I was a board member or investor I would be pretty upset.

[toxic_waltz]

Adobe does not care how you feel. Like what we are doing or go jump in a creek.

[Kwan Parker]

adobe doesn't care.  Why should they?  They;re a virtual monopoly.

They're an space age . . . next generation . . . what I say customers will do customers will do.

Adobe is our pimp daddy.

We let Adobe become our Pimp because they made all the right choices for thier customers . . . till now.

Now Adobe pimps only for benefit of investors and stock holders.

[pik80]

@Paul_Taylor

At one point MS Office didn't really have any competition (ten years ago) and yet MS still couldn't get away with the rental model when they tried it. Do you think Adobe would be much  different then MS? I don't see why that would be.

[ahimktg1962]

I was trying to offer some constructive ideas about a week ago when I joined this discussion.

I agree with others here that it's about having options and ones that fit the way people/organizations work and use Adobe products.

Being able to customize a suite of applications might help a lot of people.

It's also about pricing. I don't see the current CC pricing working for our business. We currently maintain 5 seats of CS Design Premium. Based on our upgrade schedule it costs about $100 per month in total. We need most of the apps in the suite, but only rarely. I personally might only used Photoshop 2-3 times per week, Illustratator once a week, InDesign once a month probably. Having said that, when I need them, I need them, but I cannot justify now spending $300-400 per month for software that we only occasionally use.

I'm sure there are many others who beyond all the anger and emotions just wish there were a wider variety of options that meet our needs from a price, practicality  and fairness standpoint.

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

ahimktg1962 wrote:

I'm sure there are many others who beyond all the anger and emotions just wish there were a wider variety of options that meet our needs from a price, practicality  and fairness standpoint.

Yeah, I think you're right, and thank you for making positive suggestions.  While some are clearly just here to rant (not naming names, of course... ), I think there are also a lot of reasonable people who just want a solution that works for as many people as possible.

[BITESBITER]

I think that exceptable would be:

*Upgrade possibility from all versions CS

*After a certain time of rental comes a perpetual licence of the current version with the possibility to extend for the same rental time (to the next perpetual license upgrade) etc. etc.

*A much lower price for the people that already have a perpetual licence based on the difference between someone with just one licence for one app like "Photoshop" or like me with the  "Master Collection" and the chosen apps not only two choices  "1 app" or "all apps"!

*A flexible choice of apps and prices, that your able to create your own CC collection.

I think that everybody will be happy then.

[bitm07]

Bitesbiter, I think your first statement 'After a certain time of rental comes a perpetual licence of the current version with the possibility to extend for the same rental time etc. etc'' would be a major issue for Adobe.  Look at what happened in January when everyone thought that CS2 was free, it was downloaded by the masses.  They didn't care how old it was.

[BITESBITER]

Yes but imagine you have a perpetual license that you can extend by paying every month instead of the whole amount at once.

That makes it attractive for the Users and Adobe.

Because more people will get in to the CC and see it as a monthly payment for a certain version of Apps that become perpetual at the end of a certain period  that makes a lot of sense.

[bitm07]

Yes but imagine you have a perpetual license that you can extend by paying every month instead of the whole amount at once.

That makes it attractive for the Users and Adobe.

Because more people will get in to the CC and see it as a monthly payment for a certain version of Apps that become perpetual at the end of a certain period  that makes a lot of sense.

Bitesbiter.  It still comes down to how old a perpetual version Adobe are prepare to offer.  If it's 18 months old, and the price for that 18 months is similar to the price of the old upgrade, it works for us photographers.  But Adobe would be back to a similar situation as they were in with CS perpetual licenses, just delayed by 18 months.  I can't see them accepting that.  So the version would have to be older, but how old would us photographers accept ?.

[BITESBITER]

No!

Imagine you have CS5.5 and update to CC in my opinion your entitled for a perpetual license after paying the same amount of rent as the upgrade price you would pay in the old situation of course with inflation calculated.

After that rental period you can continue paying rent when you want (to the next perpetual version etc.). In the meanwhile you can stick with your perpetual version.

The Users and Adobe benefits from this. We can pay by month instead of the whole lot at once. Adobe gets more users because there is a lower entree level!

That's my idea. Read it carefully!

[bitm07]

OK Bitesbiter, I get your point and agree that you could and should be entitled to a perpetual license when you've paid the same amount of money as the upgrade price.  But think about it from Adobe's point of view.  Rather than issuing upgrades every 20 months (on average), they would be in a position where different licences would be entitled to their perpetual licences at different times.  This would have to be addresses otherwise they would be issuing perpetual licences every month of the year.  So again it comes back to how often,  if at all Adobe are prepared to offer perpetual licences. 

[Guest]

From Adobe to wall street. This clearly states that the move to force the cloud is to get more money thats it. Take away there money is all you can do!

current and thereby driving higher average revenue per user. Additionally, our shift to a subscription model will increase the amount of recurring revenue that is ratably reported, driven by broader Creative Cloud adoption over the next several years.

To assist with the understanding of this transition and the related shift in revenue described above, we are using certain performance metrics to assess the health and trajectory of our overall Digital Media segment.

These metrics include the total number of current paid subscriptions and Annualized Recurring Revenue ("ARR"). We define ARR as the sum of:

� the number of current paid subscriptions, multiplied by the average subscription price paid per user per month, multiplied by twelve months; plus,

� twelve months of contract value of Enterprise Term License Agreements ("ETLAs") where the revenue is ratably recognized over the life of the contract.

In addition, we expect renewal rates associated with Creative Cloud, and potentially other subscription offerings, will become key metrics used to measure their performance. Because the majority of Creative Cloud subscriptions have been annual and the Creative Cloud launched in May 2012, we have not yet reached the first anniversary of these annual subscriptions and, therefore, we anticipate that meaningful data regarding subscription renewal rates will first become available later in fiscal year 2013.
CRITICAL ACCOUNTING POLICIES AND ESTIMATES In preparing our Condensed Consolidated Financial Statements in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America ("GAAP") and pursuant to the rules and regulations of the SEC, we make assumptions, judgments and estimates that affect the reported amounts of assets, liabilities, revenue and expenses, and related disclosures of contingent assets and liabilities. We base our assumptions, judgments and estimates on historical experience and various other factors that we believe to be reasonable under the circumstances. Actual results could differ materially from these estimates under different assumptions or conditions. On a regular basis, we evaluate our assumptions, judgments and estimates. We also discuss our critical accounting policies and estimates with the Audit Committee of the Board of Directors. We believe that the assumptions, judgments and estimates involved in the accounting for revenue recognition, stock-based compensation, business combinations, goodwill impairment and income taxes have the greatest potential impact on our Condensed Consolidated Financial Statements. These areas are key components of our results of operations and are based on complex rules requiring us to make judgments and estimates, so we consider these to be our critical accounting policies. Historically, our assumptions, judgments and estimates relative to our critical accounting policies have not differed materially from actual results.
With the exception of the discussion below, there have been no significant changes in our critical accounting policies and estimates during the three months ended March 1, 2013, as compared to the critical accounting policies and estimates disclosed in Management's Discussion and Analysis of Financial Condition and Results of Operations included in our Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ended November 30, 2012.
Recent Accounting Pronouncements

[Guest]

Here is Adobe point of view

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/130328/adbe10-q.html

From Adobe to wall street

current and thereby driving higher average revenue per user. Additionally, our shift to a subscription model will increase the amount of recurring revenue that is ratably reported, driven by broader Creative Cloud adoption over the next several years.

To assist with the understanding of this transition and the related shift in revenue described above, we are using certain performance metrics to assess the health and trajectory of our overall Digital Media segment.

These metrics include the total number of current paid subscriptions and Annualized Recurring Revenue ("ARR"). We define ARR as the sum of:

� the number of current paid subscriptions, multiplied by the average subscription price paid per user per month, multiplied by twelve months; plus,

� twelve months of contract value of Enterprise Term License Agreements ("ETLAs") where the revenue is ratably recognized over the life of the contract.

In addition, we expect renewal rates associated with Creative Cloud, and potentially other subscription offerings, will become key metrics used to measure their performance. Because the majority of Creative Cloud subscriptions have been annual and the Creative Cloud launched in May 2012, we have not yet reached the first anniversary of these annual subscriptions and, therefore, we anticipate that meaningful data regarding subscription renewal rates will first become available later in fiscal year 2013.
CRITICAL ACCOUNTING POLICIES AND ESTIMATES In preparing our Condensed Consolidated Financial Statements in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America ("GAAP") and pursuant to the rules and regulations of the SEC, we make assumptions, judgments and estimates that affect the reported amounts of assets, liabilities, revenue and expenses, and related disclosures of contingent assets and liabilities. We base our assumptions, judgments and estimates on historical experience and various other factors that we believe to be reasonable under the circumstances. Actual results could differ materially from these estimates under different assumptions or conditions. On a regular basis, we evaluate our assumptions, judgments and estimates. We also discuss our critical accounting policies and estimates with the Audit Committee of the Board of Directors. We believe that the assumptions, judgments and estimates involved in the accounting for revenue recognition, stock-based compensation, business combinations, goodwill impairment and income taxes have the greatest potential impact on our Condensed Consolidated Financial Statements. These areas are key components of our results of operations and are based on complex rules requiring us to make judgments and estimates, so we consider these to be our critical accounting policies. Historically, our assumptions, judgments and estimates relative to our critical accounting policies have not differed materially from actual results.
With the exception of the discussion below, there have been no significant changes in our critical accounting policies and estimates during the three months ended March 1, 2013, as compared to the critical accounting policies and estimates disclosed in Management's Discussion and Analysis of Financial Condition and Results of Operations included in our Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ended November 30, 2012.
Recent Accounting Pronouncements

[Jeff_Know1]

Victoria Bampton wrote:

Jeff_Know1 wrote:

Just give us back the option to upgrade to perpetual licenses.

That's interesting, thanks.  My doubt on that arose because I'm hearing a lot of people screaming "we've lost trust, never using Adobe software again" etc.

Ok, that's a fair point. Angry people don't always come up with the best arguments. I've been guilty of that myself. So it is a good thing you brought this up and it will keep us on track.

I would still not trust Adobe, like most big businesses really. That's why I don't want to chain myself to them forever. But I would still use and buy their software if I think it is of value to me. With the right upgrade price, and the ability to skip a version if I wanted to.

If I have a perpetual license and Adobe does something I don't agree with in the future. Well... I know I can still use the current version to work with. (As I am doing right now with CS5.5.) With the Cloud that safety net is gone for us. *POOF*

So please Adobe... don't do this.

[Guest]

I want to expose Adobe for lying to us and In my view stealing. When I bought I was told by Adobe that they intend to be here for years and that by buying now I could continue to upgrade. Lye

They are lying to wall street.

I want to see people spread the word to get off the cloud and Hurt Adobes ability to maake money. Because that is all they care about Money!

Right now Adobe trades at 30x EPS while Apple at 10x eps. Msft 14x eps etc. Why Adobe has wall street thinking that the CC will increase growth. Wall street the good ones buy growth and sell into strentgth. Or buy low sell high. But what to buy is growth not aall ready grown. So Adobe is lying to everyone on both sides us and wall street.

'So victoria I want to see Adobe Stock under ten bucks. I want to see Adobe boths at trade shows empty. I want the staff to be embarsd to say they work for Adobe That its like wotking for Monsanto, Koch bros. Adobe could have been cool and done so many things diffrent. Had I been able to upgrade my software they coiuld have smoked as many joints on there cloud as they want but now they are just a Greedy corp. That is going dowwn in value

Someone said titanic perfect Sink Adobe and make room for a new company

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

001andrew wrote:

I want to expose Adobe for lying to us and In my view stealing. When I bought I was told by Adobe that they intend to be here for years and that by buying now I could continue to upgrade.

Ok, so you just want to see Adobe go bust?  You're not here to find a way forward - you just want to cause trouble for them?  Have I understood that correctly?

Out of interest, which programs were you using Andrew?  Is this your work or a hobby?

[Guest]

I trried on three occasions to come to a solution with Adobe after NAB   and was meet with extreme rudnes. If you are able to negotiate then say so other wise. You are just playing cheer leader, And unless Adobe does a quick 180 with a full aploogee I want them to be taken down and replaced or bought byt someone who will sell the software at a fair price In a fair mannor