[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[Andy_Bay]

I love how they knew about this 2 weeks ago and said nothing. Millions of customers personal information was at risk and they said nothing. Adobe has become the Satan of the software industry in less than a year.

They had their Q3 earnings report 2 weeks ago. Wouldn't want to have small hickups, like compromising the privacy of millions of users, ruin the wallstreet party.

[bababongatwo]

True.
They completely changed philosophy.

Nice article and comments here:
http://techcrunch.com/2013/10/03/adobe-gets-hacked-product-source-code-and-data-for-2-9m-customers-l...

Like this one of Amelia Jensen:

So I can pay a company for their overpriced software, and let them make my credit card info available to hackers...
Or download their software for free from hackers at The Pirate Bay and not put my credit card info at risk... Hmmm...

Normaly I´m not a friend of piracy, but in case of Adobe I´m thinking about who is the pirate - me or them?

[dsfsdsdfsdffdsf]

The funny thing is also this: guess who is going to have to pay for the hundreds of thousands of lost Adobe customers? That's right, the ones who are still left. Cloud users should prepare mentally for some serious milking!

And they can't even blame Adobe for it. If you willingly position yourself as the (cash) cow, don't be surprised when you get milked!

As a current CC customer, I have to say that's one of the benefits of the subscription model. If at any time the software gets overly buggy, the pricing rockets too high or the updates start trickling too slowly I just shift our company's software dollars elsewhere. I did it previously when Apple abandoned FCP so I'm not going to lose sleep over the complexities of shifting projects cross-title. There are and hopefully always will be alternatives on the market, so the double edged sword of the monthly model for them is they also need to keep their side of the bargain up if they want to avoid customer bleed. The monthly model also makes it very easy to activate on a temporary basis if project revisions are needed down the track. $30 or a new email and a new trial account ain't going to break the bank when we're talking paid client revisions.

[lasvideo]

Thinking of signing up for the @adobe Creative Cloud? Some of these horror stories might change your mind. http://forums.adobe.com/community/creative_cloud …

[Andy_Bay]

Was this survey ever posted here?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57586530-92/survey-creative-suite-users-loathe-adobes-subscriptions...

[Guest]

And now Adobe changes their home page http://www.adobe.com/ to say "One million members, one million thank yous." Yeah, like we had a choice in the matter!

[Greg_Bohn]

Just saw an article on the latest quartly report at http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2013/09/18/adobe_q3_fiscal_13/

One reader commented "The real number here is -8% revenues."

[W_J_T]

Adobe still has their head in the sand, while marketing efforts continue to candy coat the CC mirage.

[jbjones]

PaulM-Aus wrote:

... If at any time the software gets overly buggy, the pricing rockets too high or the updates start trickling too slowly I just shift our company's software dollars elsewhere. I did it previously when Apple abandoned FCP so I'm not going to lose sleep over the complexities of shifting projects cross-title. ...

The upside with FCP is that if you need to open a project 3 years from now you can just reinstall the software and update whatever you need without having to pay apple another $30 or $70 that month.

[ReactionAtWork]

jbjones wrote:

The upside with FCP is that if you need to open a project 3 years from now you can just reinstall the software and update whatever you need without having to pay apple another $30 or $70 that month.

Precisely. It is an idiot who, in effect, signs a lifetime contract, at an unknown future rate, to own the access rights to their own creations. That's your creations, shackled forever to an obese company with little interest in customer service. A company that can now sit back and relax, with no incentive to innovate, as they watch the cash roll in.

Adobe has become the software equivalent of a massive utility company - but without any threat of being fined for providing a lousy service. Get out while you can!

[bababongatwo]

> ReactionAtWork

Well said and a very good description in short.

For me - Adobe lost all it´s seriousness from one day to the other.

[Guest]

ReactionAtWork wrote:

Precisely. It is an idiot who, in effect, signs a lifetime contract, at an unknown future rate, to own the access rights to their own creations. That's your creations, shackled forever to an obese company with little interest in customer service. A company that can now sit back and relax, with no incentive to innovate, as they watch the cash roll in.

Adobe has become the software equivalent of a massive utility company - but without any threat of being fined for providing a lousy service. Get out while you can!

@ReactionAtWork

Wow, I agree...very well said. I have ZERO interest in wanting to pay an indefinite ever-changing subscription based fee to use the new Creative Chains model to create my work. Adobe has truly lost it.

[Monte_Allums]

ARE YOU LISTENING ADOBE!  We're mad and you'd better start listening...

[W_J_T]

Monte Allums wrote:

ARE YOU LISTENING ADOBE!  We're mad and you'd better start listening...

Sure they are listening....

They are concerned you have "Freedom of Choice" as the Adobe co-founders, John Warnock and Chuck Geschke always have believed.

"Freedom of Choice" section of Adobe's site they recently had:

Adobe - Freedom of Choice - We Love Choice - Create without limits

http://web.archive.org/web/20110623095449/http://www.adobe.com/choice/

• At Adobe, we believe that the open flow of creativity, ideas, and information should be limited only by the imagination. Innovation thrives when people are free to choose the technologies that enable them to openly express themselves and access information where and when they want.
• Openness is at Adobe's core.
• We believe open markets that allow developers, publishers, and consumers to make their own choices about how they create, distribute, and access content are essential to progress.
• We remain certain that open markets are the only way forward.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110810034808/http://www.adobe.com/choice/ createwithoutlimits.html
• As part of our commitment to enabling choice for developers, publishers, and consumers, Adobe ...

Thoughts on Open Markets - John Warnock and Chuck Geschke

http://web.archive.org/web/20110716073019/http://www.adobe.com/choice/ openmarkets.html

• As the founders of Adobe, we believe open markets are in the best interest of developers, content owners, and consumers.

• We believe that consumers should be able to freely access their favorite content and applications, regardless of what computer they have, what browser they like, or what device suits their needs. No company — no matter how big or how creative — should dictate what you can create, how you create it

• When markets are open, anyone with a great idea has a chance to drive innovation and find new customers. Adobe's business philosophy is based on a premise that, in an open market, the best products will win in the end

• In the end, we believe the question is really this: Who controls the World Wide Web (insert how you use your Software)? And we believe the answer is: nobody — and everybody, but certainly not a single company.

So, Adobe and it's co-founders, John Warnock and Chuck Geschke each co-chairman of the Board, believe (once believed?) the following:

• Freedom of choice

• We love choice

• Create without limits

• Openness is at Adobe's core

• We believe that the open flow of creativity, ideas, and information should be limited only by the imagination

• Innovation thrives when people are free to choose the technologies that enable them to openly express themselves and access information where and when they want

• We believe open markets that allow developers, publishers, and consumers to make their own choices ... are essential to progress.

• We remain certain that open markets are the only way forward

• As the founders of Adobe, we believe open markets are in the best interest of developers, content owners, and consumers.

• We believe that consumers should be able to freely access their favorite content and applications ... suits their needs.

• No company — no matter how big or how creative — should dictate what you can create, how you create it

• When markets are open, anyone with a great idea has a chance to drive innovation and find new customers.

• Adobe's business philosophy is based on a premise that, in an open market, the best products will win in the end

• In the end, we believe the question is really this: Who controls the World Wide Web (insert how you use your Software)? And we believe the answer is: nobody — and everybody, but certainly not a single company.

• As part of our commitment to enabling choice for developers, publishers, and consumers, Adobe ...

2013, Welcome to the Creative Cloud? Going completely against their own ideals and core values?

[Jongware] wrote:

[Guest]

Now that John Warnock and Chuck Geschke's old model of We Love CHOICE has been in the open air for a while after this forced move to the Creative Chains model; how can we as creatives and professionals even for one moment believe in a company or TRUST a company who once gave us that choice and freedom, only to remove what they founded every bit of their beliefs on???

We just don't understand Adobe, we really don't. It's so blaintanly obvious you are doing this as a one-sided venture for your investors and pocket books that you are thinking with your greed rather than logic. I have already made a self-pledge to no longer invest a single dollar more into your crap shoot scheme. While I still use Adobe products, they are on the old believe of choice, the Creative Suite model CS5 and CS6 and I no longer plan to move any further from those two versions until you bring back perpetual licenses and non-subscription model. End of story, my mind is made up along with tens of thousands of other long standing (once) loyal customers of yours. It's unbelievable that you've decided to be this greedy in your stance and this greed will only be your undoing. So enjoy it while it lasts and be forever known as the company who became publicly shamed for turning your backs on your customers and changing your founding beliefs and visions.

[FrannieKN]

Creativetta, you've stated this point succinctly. Touché.

[Greg_Bohn]

> We just don't understand Adobe, we really don't.

  It seems clear to me that Adobe decided they could make more money if they could get people locked into the subscription model. They most likely made a projection on how many people they would lose verses how much more they would make from remaining/new customers and figured they would end up ahead.

  Losing some existing customers was part of the plan, so all they really care about is ending up ahead (How any given customer fairs doesn't enter into it except for the net bigger picture as to how many will continue to pay).

  If they view their customers as a captive (or potentially captive) resource to be exploited to the max. then their actions are easy to understand... It gives them maximum profit and leverage over them if they can pull it off.

[Andy_Bay]

Yes, it's clear that Adobe doesn't value the old customers much and is happy show us the finger in order to attract new users.

It will be really interesting to see how a company will succeed with so many old customers bad mouthing them at every chance. The track record in history doesn't promise Adobe very long lasting results. Every business book will emphasize how much angry customers can hurt a business.

I know this much from my personal experience: I have taught around 300-400 students to use various Adobe products. Many of them come talk to me after class and ask me advice on how to buy the programs. I have happily helped them to do so. Last time this happened was on thursday. Of course I had to explain the student what a bad deal CC would be for him (especially as a student) compared to CS6. My point is this: when you make us old customers mad, we stop doing the free sales work we have been doing on your behalf. When the grassroot support drops off, it might have a bigger impact than you think. Of course it will take some years to start showing.

Anyway, let's try not to feel too bad about all this. It might be a cliche but often when one door shuts down, another one opens. Adobe was becoming a typical corporate giant: greedy, unresponsive and slow to innovate. Maybe it was due time to get some fresh players on the scene! What is happening here will change the industry and I'm sure we will have some amazing competition for Adobe products.

Adobe might succeed in jamming this subscription model down the throats of some of it's old customers. But the taste is bitter. What do you guys think will happen with those customers when proper Photoshop alternatives start emerging? Probably at a tenth of the Adobe price..  I have a feeling everyone forced to subscribe against their own will are going to be standing in lines to jump ship!

[TheCoroner9]

Greg Bohn wrote:

> We just don't understand Adobe, we really don't.

  It seems clear to me that Adobe decided they could make more money if they could get people locked into the subscription model. They most likely made a projection on how many people they would lose verses how much more they would make from remaining/new customers and figured they would end up ahead.

  Losing some existing customers was part of the plan, so all they really care about is ending up ahead (How any given customer fairs doesn't enter into it except for the net bigger picture as to how many will continue to pay).

  If they view their customers as a captive (or potentially captive) resource to be exploited to the max. then their actions are easy to understand... It gives them maximum profit and leverage over them if they can pull it off.

Unfortunately that is a PR recipe for disaster.  As a former customer, if Adobe brought back the old model in some form, I wouldn't give them my $ now because it's clear how little they think of their customers. In the mind of Adobe they have won the battle but the reality is they lost the war.  At some point in the future, a percentage of the current CC subscribers will also be considered as expendable -

After all Adobe loves choice (selecting which customers they want to dump and when).

[Biggles_Lamb]

Great post

Is it me or is there an increase in the number of CCers having problems?

Col

[FastFeet]

Hi Col,

I'm constantly experiencing issues with logins, turning CS6 and CC apps into trial versions, failing installs and I constantly need to confirm the licensing terms. It is really annoying. I had crashes opening large files with Photoshop CC, but not with CS6. Support is a clueless nightmare. Even customer service just messes up accounts and in four weeks is not able to get it straight.

Before CC I was using the actual versions only. Now I’m switching constantly between different software and versions, whatever gets the job done and doesn’t make me depended on CC. Most of the time I’m working with my CS6 apps so I can save the file and don’t have to worry about how to open it later. I’m working in CC only if I need a special feature or don’t need to save the file, e.g. save for web in Photoshop. I hate that situation.

When my discounted year runs out I definitely won’t continue my subscription if Adobe doesn’t fire its CEO, changes its attitude, and gets its act together.

[W_J_T]

Rather ironic that, Adobe's 1 Million Thank Yous marketing campaign for the Creative Cloud was followed 2 weeks later by 2.9 Million Apologies.

[lasvideo]

Thinking of signing up for the @adobe Creative Cloud? Some of these horror stories might change your mind. http://forums.adobe.com/community/creative_cloud

Remember to change your passwords and check your bank account for the next several month to make sure the hackers  that got all that sensitive data from Adobe don't access your accounts.

New Adobe Survey. If you are not happy with CC being the only choice, let them know. http://deploy.ztelligence.com/start/survey/survey_taking.jsp?PIN=16BNF7XXXKLNX

[TheCoroner9]

W_J_T wrote:

Rather ironic that, Adobe's 1 Million Thank Yous marketing campaign for the Creative Cloud was followed 2 weeks later by 2.9 Million Apologies.

Too funny and how typical of Adobe. 

1.9 million not buying into the CC garbage. That's a huge number...

[Biggles_Lamb]

I cannot help but wonder why anyone was and I make no apologies for the next phrase, stupid enough to sign up for the CC to start off with.

Adobe DOES NOT have a good track record at delivering bug free software, indeed in the CS suites CS2 and CS4 were quite poor and CS6 has never been degugged sufficiently.

Then with such a big jump in the system that are a result of the CC versions any user should really have deduced that Adobe were not likely to get the software correct with the first iteration. Therefore the problems CCers are facing were always going to be likely to occur.

Yet a million users who should have known better subscribed, and that is the problem.

Many of us foresaw the difficulties immediately the subscription only method of software aquisition was announced, and we told you; the users that you were making a mistake.

Did you listen, well a million did not and you now have precisely what you deserve.

If everyone had said no then Adobe would soon have had to change their stance.

The only way now if if the present CC subscribers drop out after their first year, then maybe we will have a chance at Adobe removing the CCers from the Board and of them changing direction. 

For only when their income revenue of the market share severely reduces will anything happen.

Col