[Locked] No perpetual licenses are you serious?

[Mattrman]

I just head that Adobe was planning to abandon its perpetual license in favor of an on line only rental program. At first I thought that this must be a joke. I have been using adobe products for 18 years. Primarily Photoshop, Illustrator and Indesign. I am currently an owner of CS 6 Master collection and obviously do upgrade my products and have consistently done so over the years. I am not connected to the internet full time and in fact my work computer is never directly connected to the internet. So how does this work? Is adobe now forcing me to connect to the internet - it seems that this is the case.

In regards to upgrade cycles, I dont want to rent my software and be tied to a rental agreement. I want to upgrade when I choose, not rent my software like some kind of loaner program!

I want to purchase the software then not worry about it. For instance when I travel, I dont want to be bogged down with downloads and upgrades chewing up my bandwidth. I have traveled to many places where internet access is very limited. Downloading from a wireless card in China is painful, I dont want to be bogged down with no software or large megabyte downloads costing me a fortune on the other side of the planet.

Adobe I know that I am just one person and you will probably not listen to me but did someone ask? No one asked me about this. How simple could this be - I want to buy the software then use it when I want where I want, is this too much to ask?

Please let me continue to use this software in the way that I have used it for so long. If others wish to have the creative cloud then great! More power to them, don't alienate your other users. Please provide both alternatives.

Best regards - Matt

[NoAdobeCloudPlease]

MikeChambers wrote:

BlueThird wrote:

I'm 100% against forcing users to rent software.

Completely understand. That is why we continue to sell CS6 (indefinately), and plan to update it to support the next major releases of Mac and Windows.

This is covered in the FAQ:

http://www.adobe.com/go/cc_faq

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

I'm sorry, but no.  That's not going to cut it.  Eventually camera raw will not support new camera models, and we will be forced into the cloud and the monthly subscription model.  For casual photographers and artists who upgrade every 2 or 3 versions, the subscription is significantly more expensive even at current prices, which will no doubt rise over time.

The professional users won't mind, but the rest of us are left in the dust.  Leaving CS6 available is a stopgap only; we'll all be forced into the cloud eventually.

I've been a long time user of Adobe Photoshop, and I absolutely abhor this move.

[BlueThird]

The issue of Camera Raw support is obviously a huge one, and I'm sure I'm not alone in being every bit as cynical on this subject. I simply don't believe that Adobe won't try to force us into switching to Creative Cloud.

For anyone interested, there's a petition at Change.org.

[DGP2014]

Its a total rip off. Apple screwed us out of Final Cut, then Adobe stepped in with an amazing "switch" plan. They should have called it "Bait and Switch". Do the math. $19.99 for CS6 upgrades for the first year, then it jumps to the $49.99 plan. $240ish for year one. $600 for year 2. By Year three you will have paid $1400+ and on and on. I've used Final Cut for the life of the software, and had I paid a monthly fee for all those years the cost would have been way in the very high thousands of dollars. As much as those old hardware based Avid systems that people tried to get out from under once Final Cut was released.

I've been busting my butt trying to get up to speed with the Adobe suite and recently have become so excited about working with it. Finally putting Final Cut somewhat behind me only to have this dumped on my lap. Frustraded is an understatment.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[Paul_Taylor]

I can only reitterate what has been said above.

As a customer I do not want a forever and ever obligation to be online and pay Adobe to use its software. 

Please Adobe -  continue with paid perpertual licenses.

[MikeChambers]

You can find information on camera raw support in this blog post:

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2013/05/adobe-camera-raw-8-support-for-photoshop-cc-and-phot...

--

Because Adobe is still selling Photoshop CS6, those customers will continue to receive updated camera raw file format compatibility via Adobe Camera Raw 8.

--

Hope that helps...

mike chambers

mesh@adobe.com

[DanZemke]

My experience comes from working for and managing teams in a Fortune 100 company (IBM). I have fond memories of following a couple of John Warnock's presentations with my own in an Adobe roadshow.  I particularly remember our largest crowd at a theater in Toronto.  All of the Phantom of the Opera props were back- stage.  And speaking to a thousand folks on the stage of the Pantages was a real thrill too.  But I've not had any contact with John or Chuck since - still, it was cool for me.  I've also advised hundreds of executives and business owners on strategy. 

Mike Chambers has basically posted: get over it, this is where where Adobe is going.  I agree with him.  The call-to-action threads that I've seen have pretty much run their course.  Future explaining/complaining is likely to fall on deaf ears.  It's time to decide what YOU want to do. Here are some actions I recommend for current customers of Adobe perpetual licenses.

Ad Agencies and Enterprise Creative Departments:

Subscribe to a few CC licenses to test the waters.  If there are any compelling creative (not computer) features for your needs, train a few people well, and route special jobs that need these feature(s) through them.  Let Adobe and the market thrash this out and reassess your deployment strategy next spring.

Creative Business Teams:

Same as above, except subscribe to a single CC license. If you find that it makes your team more productive and cost-effective, risk the cost of a second license and training for redundancy.  If not, wait on expansion until there is a compelling reason to subscribe.  In parallel, investigate other paths that may work for your business to reduce your dependency and risk.

Sole Proprietors, Freelancers (Web Designers, Photographers ...), Amateurs:

Make do with your existing CS/Lightroom software for now.  See if there are substitutes you could live with, if Adobe increases your cost beyond your price-increase tolerance.  Wait until there is a compelling reason to change.

Dan

[Guest]

What if we decide to nothing. In the past Adobe release every 18 mo so we just wait. Adobe bet big and leverd everyting on the clud. So if we do nothing and dont spend use what we got we are fine we do not need to take any action other that close our wallets. Adobe doess not exist without us.

[Terrachild]

Dan said:

Mike Chambers has basically posted: get over it, this is where where Adobe is going.  I agree with him.

Why would you agree with him on that point?

That sounds like a business insider attitude.

You say you have a lot of experience in IBM...hmm....then you must know that the behemoth that was IBM in the sixties and seventies was at one point on the verge of going the way of Wang because it badly misjudged its customers and the market.

Adobe is now doing the same.

There are countless casual Adobe users that haven't even begun to assimilate what this means for them, and countless others that don't even know about it.

Wait until they vote with their wallets.  That will take time.

The outrage you are hearing is from those that are tuned in.

Our job, as soon to be former Adobe customers, is to make sure everyone is educated about just how bad this is for them.

Adobe...I'll be seeing you at Siggraph.  I'll be the one with the black shirt yelling at you.

And by the way, I used to feel very positive about Adobe products.  I used to try to convert Apple users to the Adobe video workflow.

Wow...those were the days.

[DanZemke]

Hey Terrachild,

I miscommunicated and you misunderstood.

I posted and you quoted "Mike Chambers has basically posted: get over it, this is where where Adobe is going.  I agree with him."

My intent was to convey that Adobe has stopped listening to us and it's a waste of our time to contine lobbying.  Have I lobbyed?  Yes, in my style, which is brief and focused - twice on John Nack's blog.

We're singing the same song in different ways.  Please reread my post in the context of our common objectives.

Dan

[TheCoroner9]

DanZemke wrote:

. 

Mike Chambers has basically posted: get over it, this is where where Adobe is going.  I agree with him.  The call-to-action threads that I've seen have pretty much run their course.  Future explaining/complaining is likely to fall on deaf ears.  It's time to decide what YOU want to do. .  Wait until there is a compelling reason to change.

Dan

Funniest post of the year because users are over it and have decided what they want to do - not give Adobe their business any longer.

And Adobe betting on customers returning in a few years to a subscription software is a losing bet. It simply won't happen.

Rest assured Adobe customers are not going to be quiet. The compelling reason to change is called CC.

Many customers will never pay for subscription software - EVER. Adobe can keep dreaming.

[redhorse-3d]

Our complaining may fall on deaf ears at Adobe, but it is not falling on deaf ears at Corel and other potential rivals.  Seeing our outrage has finally given them hope that our unshakable devotion to Adobe's products has finally been broken.  Now it might actually be profitable to add features and put in the effort to become a serious competitor.  

If you think about it, this virtual monopoly was not created by Adobe.  It was created by our fanaticism because we made it an industry standard by never giving the "other guys" a chance.  Everyone standardized on and insisted on Adobe file formats and had no desire to learn another program.  Nothing else was ever good enough or worth putting in the effort to learn.  It was a self reinforcing scenario that drove rivals away.  In that environment, without some earth shaking technological breakthrough, a competitor would either have to be very rich, very foolish or likely both to try to steal Adobe's customers.  If someone had a product that matched your favorite Adobe product feature for feature but still worked differently, would you have bought it?  Due to your investment in learning that product, your answer likely would be "no" unless it was significantly cheaper and you saw its acceptance by the rest of your industry.

Now, with so many of us declaring that we will never give another dollar to Adobe, you can be sure that the lackluster competition has woken up and taken notice.  They see us with money clenched in our upraised fists pleading for someone to step in and fill the void into which Adobe kicked us.  It will take time, as all big software projects do, but you can be sure that Adobe will have some serious competion in a year or so unless we all admit defeat and go crawling back into the cloud.  The key is to hold on to your money and keep shouting about your outrage so that the competition has an incentive to do what it takes to earn that money you have been holding onto.  If you follow this path, the virtual monopoly WILL be broken and Adobe will get that swift kick in the backside that it so richly deserves.

[gepkes]

Good statement. One thing is for sure... The lack of future ownership makes it easier for users to abandon ship at any time for alternatives. If I'm a renter, I'm free to move without guilt over the loss of investment a homeowner might feel, and many will leave. I know alternative software developers big & small are listening as I've heard development talk getting louder. Investements are flowing into those companies now.

So alternative software developers; the future of creative software is yours to grab. I see a giant fracturing of standards coming our way but stronger compeitition is in our best interest.

Don't knock the staff though. People like MikeChambers are here to hear your concearns. A lot can be accomplished by listing your concerns without the partisan anger.

[SoilentGreen]

Now, with so many of us declaring that we will never give another dollar to Adobe, you can be sure that the lackluster competition has woken up and taken notice.  They see us with money clenched in our upraised fists pleading for someone to step in and fill the void into which Adobe kicked us.

They're already circling the wagons.

  This has been in my Inbox a couple times over the last few days....

May 2013

QuarkXPress Not Moving to Subscription

Over the past few days, we know many of you have wondered if QuarkXPress will be transitioning to a subscription-based pricing model.

We'd like to reassure you that we have no plans to move QuarkXPress customers down a subscription-only path and will continue to offer perpetual licenses.

At Quark we believe that your purchase of QuarkXPress is more than a one-off transaction. That’s why we continue to provide new features and enhancements throughout the lifecycle of each version, completely free. In version 9 we delivered multiple free updates with support for creating apps, print output enhancements, new eBook features and more.

We look forward to continuing to do the right thing by our customers.

For the latest QuarkXPress news and events follow us on Twitter and Facebook.

Corel also has a large banner on their front page "Welcome CS Users" "Looking for an alternative to Creative Cloud?" 

I especially like this one:  "For a limited time, we're opening our upgrade path to users of Adobe Creative Suite"

What once was an alternative, that you heard some people used,  is now an "Upgrade Path"

[Terrachild]

From the CNET article above, one of the posters wrote:

As a Gold Partner of Adobe in Europe we strongly disagree with this decision of Adobe. Our company is strongly depending on the sales of Adobe products. We've always tried to do this in a honest way. End 2011 we were confronted with the sudden 1-version back policy which has been postponed to 1-1-2013. Our turnover went down with huge numbers (about 70%)… there was nothing we could tell our customers to make it easier on them. You just have to take it… there is nowhere else to go. 1st quarter 2013: our representative at Adobe told us about he Adobe plans to go "Subscription Only"(which has never been confirmed by an official announcement).

We've told them this would be a major mistake but since we are on a "non-disclosure agreement" there was no time to warn our customers

Exactly what I have been suspecting.

This is all grounds for a class-action lawsuit.

I've been party to several for far less egregious corporate behavior.

Adobe knowingly marketed and sold CS6 with no intention of giving the purchasers the advertised future upgrade path!

Moreover, many upgraded because of the change in policy that forbade skipping a release.  A policy that was entrenched for most users for their entire time with Adobe.

[Greg_Bohn]

> They see us with money clenched in our upraised fists pleading for  someone to step in and fill the void

> into which Adobe kicked us.

  That's kind of my situation. I'm thinking of taking what I might have spent on the Photoshop CS7 upgrade and instead taking Corel up on one of their "Upgrade" offers for Adobe customers.

  I already have CS 6.  I know it's not the same, but hey, maybe that's my "Silver lining" from the Creative Cloud  .

  Enough of a windfall for them (and others) might stimulate some better competition.

[kantera]

Agreed. Remember folks, Adobe is not the one that is actually calling the shots here. We as consumers ultimately will decide what business model, if any, they will offer in the future. Adobe's stance on the CC ("Constant Charge" your credit card) and get-over-it, you'll-eventually-come-around, take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum seems to indicate that they are willing to lose many of us as customers. They probably have already accepted and acounted for it. They have likely crunched the numbers and hedged their bets that their monopolistic standing will see them through in keeping a steady stream of revenue from the remaining base of those who can and are willing to "feed-the-beast". What we can do is lobby and support other software vendors to recognize the huge opportunity from the mass defections from Adobe that is surely on the horizon. Poised candidates include Corel, Nik/Google, onOne, ACD Systems, Quark, SageLight, etc. Ask plug-in vendors to create stand-alone products and suites and support those who do. Continue to share with each other alternatives to explore for the different Adobe products, especially as alternative products mature with this new huge hole in the Adobe suit of armor. Adobe makes great products and this is a real shame but the only way that they will get their head out the clouds and back down to earth is the realization of increased competition and falling revenues. It may or may not take a while, but when your so high up in the clouds, it takes a little longer to deflate and fall. Let's hope that they have a really good parachute.

[bababonga]

And here is the new overwhelming great solution from MS: Winidoofs creative cloud.

Nothing changed, but you´ll get 1 gb of online store and a few other useless gimmicks.

And all that for a little monthly fee of $50!!!

No longer great barrier to use winidoofs and your PC!

Always get automatic updates like Pissta or winidoofs 8 (without the possibility to aware!)

It´s so absolutely great. So sugar glossy (BS)!

The small print:

Winidoofs will connect to your bank account and when there is enough money it will start up. Else not.

Yes, we have access to all your cloud files and can do what we like with them. Even we can cut the access. But we will not do... may be...

You will never lose full editable access to your files (as long as you pay)

No, we are not longer motivated to updates (we never were a lot), as you will have to pay anyway.

And yes, we will not longer sell other OS ,as we promised a few month ago when we said, that our latest OS will be the last upgradeable.

Ehm, yes, you are a kind of Beta-Tester in future. Ehm, and we don´t give any warranty for anything. Ehm, good luck.

No, YOU don´t have to decide if it´s good for you or not. So it´s not an option any longer. It´s a must you must like.

Yes, it´s right, we bought also the competitor with the hooked fruit and all the others, so we are a monopolist right now. But you have enough choices to go to. So take it or not.

No, we are not listening to any concerns.

And we even don´t care about you.

[rstallsmith]

Nobody is forced to go anywhere.
Affinity Designer -> Illustrator Replacement across the board
Affinity Photo -> Photoshop Replacement across the board
And there are others for the remaining items.
No subscription fees... and, so much more inexpensive.
The competition has arrived.

[DGP2014]

Hello, I'll be traveling abroad from Saturday October 17th-Sunday, November 1st. I will have access to email, but my response time may be a bit slow due to the time difference.

Be patient, and I will get back with you as soon as I can.

Thank you.

Dan

[Dave_In_Campbell]

I totally agree!!! Adobe is making a HUGE mistake... seriously. Adobe better rethink its move on FORCING us to a subscription based model. Are you listening Adobe????

[mahmoodm54108421]

I'm new in adobe software (cause i just start to use them in college) but if adobe really doesn't want to support the indefinitely license then there are millions of apps that I can buy it and use it as I want (no one can force me to subscription system )

so thanks adobe, I will use this app for one year then if I can not buy it, I will move to another apps. (how much I like the Autodesck policy I wish u can learn from them)

[slavne]

For myself after decades of using Photoshop, I mentioned previously that I switched to Corel PaintShopPro. After months of usage I can share my additional experience.

Generally Paintshop is definately, powerful. It is interesting that after half a year I am still struggling to adopt myself to it not because Paintshop is bad but because old habits die hard. Also I personaly don't like the highly separated interface for Manage, Adjust, and Edit, but that is just programmers paradigm (all programmers would know what I mean) - maybe again my inability to adopt fully after so long time using Photoshop.

If some of you decide to follow my steps and buy and adopt to Paintshop: when learning how to use Paintshop, you actually have multiple approaches, probably developed historically as this product evolved: Adjust inteface you use for say smaller tasks, or say for non-proffesional use. The edit interface tab you will use for full blown features when you consider yourself advanced Paintshop user. Also when using Paintshop, you will notice in time that features are very often overlapping, something that we could see in Photoshop as well.

Final verdict: I shall stick with Paintshop in future.

[Guest]

her we go lets take action

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/ask-doj-investigate-adobe-systems-inc-recent-announcement-...

[85Dragons]

So how do I go about the one year subscription? What do I do If I need Premiere Pro + After Effects just, lets say, for three months ONLY? I don't want to pay for the whole year. Please help.

[DGP2014]

Hello, I'll be traveling abroad from Saturday October 17th-Sunday, November 1st. I will have access to email, but my response time may be a bit slow due to the time difference.

Be patient, and I will get back with you as soon as I can.

Thank you.

Dan